Originally Posted By mrkthompsn They should use the space to build Disney's Olympic Stadium with a couple of arenas, and an man-made river rapids course. Bid for the 2016 Olympics. Use the new stadium to house the Capital One (Citrus) Bowl. (or maybe the Pixar Bowl).
Originally Posted By fkurucz ^^Why not the WSDW bowl? You just won the WDW bowl! What are you going to do next?
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 Some Spirited thoughts on the World, from the World ... the idea Disney has to go after the folks who stay on 192 or I-Drive is PURE, UTTER AND TOTAL INSANITY! There's only so far you can drop and still be considered a quality 'brand' ... forget about being a premium one (which Disney always was). This has no bearing on who can/can't go to WDW. No one is entitled to go. Walt didn't let the poor from Compton get into DL for free. This is a business. As to WalMarting the property, I don't use this term to disparage any low income people ... just the mindset of people who don't realize the danger/ramifications of saving a few bucks by shopping there ... and the mentality of execs at many other companies (including Disney) to shoot for the lowest of the low. I can't see anyway that a shopping/dining complex on the western edge of WDW makes any sense at all. Been to DD lately? See what's left of PI? See how every shop basically is a Disney character shop? Do you really see a market for another five miles down the road? As to the clientele, well yes, WDW mirrors the world and the basic manners of human beings are at an all-time low. It isn't cultural ... and it sure isn't financial as you'll find just as much trash staying at the GF as you will at the All Stars. Maybe better dressed though ;-) As to Dave's point about staying elsewhere, like the Ritz Carlton, J.W. Marriott, Hyatt Grand Cypress, Gaylord etc ... you have to weigh things individually. So long as I get quality from Disney at what I feel is a fair price point, I will give them my business. But when the Ritz offers those $199 rooms in the summer, I'll spend 5-6 nights there!
Originally Posted By RoadTrip Spirit... I was hoping you might comment on my theory that with recent pricing decisions Disney has actually started catering to a higher level guest, not a lower level one. Am I totally out to lunch or does my reasoning make some sense?
Originally Posted By fkurucz >> This has no bearing on who can/can't go to WDW. << You are absolutely correct. Its about increasing revenues. If Disney can get a few thousand people every night to stay at a budget Disney motel as opposed to an I Drive motel, that's more money in Disney's pocket. >>There's only so far you can drop and still be considered a quality 'brand'<< FWIW, the low rent crowd are already customers. Where they lodge has no effect on the either the theme park or the resort hotel experience. If you are staying at the GF it really is irrelevant to you whether that middle income family that drove 1200 miles to Orlando in their 1998 Dodge Caravan is staying at an Econolodge off property as opposed to a Disney budget motel.
Originally Posted By fkurucz >>I was hoping you might comment on my theory that with recent pricing decisions Disney has actually started catering to a higher level guest, not a lower level one.<< They certainly want higher spending guests, but there are only so many to go around. Free dining in the Fall is indictive to me that the higher end resorts may have excess capacity. Now they certainly want to keep those resorts nearly full, as hotels tend to have a high percentage of fixed costs (meaning it costs about the same to run an empty hotel as a booked one). So it makes sense for them to try to attract high paying customers. But the trend lately has been to build lower cost resorts. But even those have proven hard to keep full (otherwise they would have finished building the Pop Century). In the end we will have to wait and see what Disney will do. I do agree that Disney needs to be careful to protect its brand. If it buids budget motels it cannot allow them to become run down.
Originally Posted By avromark ^^^ But for those who are on tighter budgets (I'm not saying Wal-Mart tight, but those who may not be die hard fans but still enjoy their vacation) there has to be a reason to come to WDW, so new rides/attractions/features have to be offered periodically (Isn't that what the Disney Decade was trying to do), I mean to someone interested in Museums they'll always find something new in Washington DC, but to the casual vacationer they don't care if they see everything and once or twice may be enough.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<Spirit... I was hoping you might comment on my theory that with recent pricing decisions Disney has actually started catering to a higher level guest, not a lower level one.>> Trippy, I am so immersed in the magic at WDW (and having a wonderful time!)AND Universal FLA that I'm really not sure what my feelings are. And rather than just blather on (no jokes, please) only to wind up realizing I don't agree with what I actually wrote, I am going to think about it and let it settle in. <<Am I totally out to lunch or does my reasoning make some sense?>> No, I don't think you are totally out to lunch ... maybe picking up a snack at the drive-thru though ;-) And in the simplest way of looking at things, you're quite correct ... Disney is going for the well-heeled guests, no doubt about it ... but they also want everyone else too. That's what makes it tough. And when you dumb down your product significantly, you do run the risk of alienating some of those monied guests who expect big service for their $400 room or $30,000 DVC membership ... you also likely attract some folks who would have before though Disney was too expensive/upscale whatever for them. That's why I'm actually looking at DVCers (don't fall down) as maybe WDW's best hope to get fresh again. Because I can't see them, as a group, being happy with the same exact offerings year in and year out. If someone bought into DVC in say 1998 or 99 ... they went a good 4-5 years with nothing of substance really added. I can't imagine those folks were very happy ... Disney can brush off APers like mosquitos on the butt of a cow, but DVCers have some substantial power. It will be interesting to see how things develop. FWIW, I do believe there will be major changes in Parks and Resorts (as well as WDI) ... the recent changes at FA, I believe, are a precursor to some major earthshaking developments. It's a very interesting time in Disney history. OK, so I blathered without really answering ... let me think about it some more.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<You are absolutely correct. Its about increasing revenues. If Disney can get a few thousand people every night to stay at a budget Disney motel as opposed to an I Drive motel, that's more money in Disney's pocket.>> Yeah. But at what cost? All it took was one downturn due to 9/11 in the economy to lead to three years of shuttering resorts ... that doesn't even take into the account of building, staffing and operating new motels. <<FWIW, the low rent crowd are already customers. Where they lodge has no effect on the either the theme park or the resort hotel experience. If you are staying at the GF it really is irrelevant to you whether that middle income family that drove 1200 miles to Orlando in their 1998 Dodge Caravan is staying at an Econolodge off property as opposed to a Disney budget motel.>> True. ... But it isn't a simple economics issue. By trying to be all things to all folks, Disney has allowed a lower clientele into ALL it's resorts ... and that leads to things like grafitti (saw some in a PO elevator too), rooms getting trashed etc ...
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<In the end we will have to wait and see what Disney will do. I do agree that Disney needs to be careful to protect its brand. If it buids budget motels it cannot allow them to become run down.>> But it isn't just a budget resort issue ... the Epcot resorts were in utter disrepair 3-4 years ago ... and they still are rough around the edges ... lightbulbs on the roof of BC that have been out for YEARS ... stained hallway carpeting and marked up walls ... and just check out the ghetto laundry room. WDW resorts across the board suffer from Jekyll and Hyde personalties. I just stayed at the All Star Music for the first time in 8-9 years ... I have a brand new room that was quite impressive and contemporary, but half the resort still looks like 1994-95 ... that's not good. The gift shop is dirty and disorganized. The lighting on the front hasn't worked in years. ... But, boy, those new rooms are impressive for $64 a night!
Originally Posted By ssWEDguy >> I am thinking they would just be regular motels with no Disney theming that Disney just happens to own and run. << Would that include the after-hours sleepy frontdesk attendant sitting inside behind the bullet-proof glass with the little tiny opening in the bottom for the cash or credit card?
Originally Posted By fkurucz >>But it isn't just a budget resort issue ... the Epcot resorts were in utter disrepair 3-4 years ago ... and they still are rough around the edges ... lightbulbs on the roof of BC that have been out for YEARS ... stained hallway carpeting and marked up walls ... and just check out the ghetto laundry roo<< I agree, Disney needs to protect its brand. And allowing its hotels (regardless of price point) to become run down jeopordizes the brand.
Originally Posted By fkurucz >>Would that include the after-hours sleepy frontdesk attendant sitting inside behind the bullet-proof glass with the little tiny opening in the bottom for the cash or credit card?<< FWIW, the motels on Harbor Blvd are not like this. I would like to think that on property budget motels at WDW could do even better. Perhaps the Econolodges and Super 8's on I Drive are as described above. If thats the case, then its a market begging to be tapped.
Originally Posted By MPierce >>Would that include the after-hours sleepy frontdesk attendant sitting inside behind the bullet-proof glass with the little tiny opening in the bottom for the cash or credit card?<< When you check-in the couple in front of you rent the room for an hour. That's the kind of places you want to steer clear of. I think ssWEDguy brings up a good point though. Just how far down the social ladder does Disney want to go for a few more dollars. I'm very much open for a high end development now, even if I can't afford it. If you try to go lower end development, I think the magic will soon be slipping away from everything there. Speaking of Magic, it sure sounds like Spirit is really experiencing it now.
Originally Posted By vbdad55 "That's why I'm actually looking at DVCers (don't fall down) as maybe WDW's best hope to get fresh again" "I've fallen and I can't get up"
Originally Posted By jmuboy "That's why I'm actually looking at DVCers (don't fall down) as maybe WDW's best hope to get fresh again" Why do you feel this way?
Originally Posted By RoadTrip <<"That's why I'm actually looking at DVCers (don't fall down) as maybe WDW's best hope to get fresh again" Why do you feel this way?>> Because we bring to WDW the money, class and sophistication that it so sorely lacks at the present time. ;-) LOL Actually, I thought the Spirit explained his thinking... <<That's why I'm actually looking at DVCers (don't fall down) as maybe WDW's best hope to get fresh again. Because I can't see them, as a group, being happy with the same exact offerings year in and year out. If someone bought into DVC in say 1998 or 99 ... they went a good 4-5 years with nothing of substance really added. I can't imagine those folks were very happy ... Disney can brush off APers like mosquitos on the butt of a cow, but DVCers have some substantial power. It will be interesting to see how things develop.>>
Originally Posted By mrichmondj FWIW, I've seen more damage done at the Disney Resorts by the spoiled brats being allowed to run loose and out of control by their well-to-do parents than I have seen similar behavior from less well-heeled guests. Sometimes I think the people with the big bank accounts think they have the right to run roughshod over the hotels they are staying at and they let their children get away with murder. I think it is painting with too broad a brushstroke to paint less well-heeled guests as a demographic that will lead to damage at the Disney properties. Disney resorts take quite a beating from the demographic that already goes there -- regardless of income. Families with young children are very hard on hotels.
Originally Posted By SuperDry <<< If they could just make a nice fancy entrance that comes off the new west road, that would be enough. I bet the day is not far when Disney "parking" toll gates are inserted to each road entrance onto the property. >>> It will never happen, since most of the roadways at WDW are public roads, managed by Reedy Creek Improvement District. Although this entity is in all practical terms controlled by Disney, it's still a public entity, and most of the roads at WDW are public roads that anyone can drive on to their heart's content no matter what Disney says. And I doubt that Florida law would allow them to be turned into toll roads.
