Originally Posted By EPCOT Explorer >>><--- loved the Seacabs (thank for reminding me of the name). It was a short trip, but so vital for maintaining the illusion that the whole attraction was at the bottom of the ocean.<<< Exactly. It was part of the experience. It wasn't meant to be a standalone attraction, it was just part of it. And as a whole, the illusion was very, very real. And amazing.
Originally Posted By HokieSkipper <<Different things have different appeal, I guess. I adored the Living Seas.>> I can see why people liked it. But to me it was just an aquarium with a story.
Originally Posted By DlandDug >>...to me it was just an aquarium with a story.<< Ok, I get it. But you're freakin' me out. Disney sees threads like these, and then rightly assume that theming, backstory, detail, etc. etc. really means nothing-- that in the end Seabase Alpha was just "an aquarium with a story." So why bother?
Originally Posted By leobloom Seacabs barely qualified as a ride. You were in your vehicle for approximately 60 seconds. (Maybe 80 seconds, in all seriousness.) I always saw Seas as Disney's attempt to replicate SeaWorld so that guests wouldn't be tempted to go there, and by that measurement it was unimpressive. But I see Mission: Space as Disney's attempt to do KSC, DAK as their attempt to copy Busch Gardens, and MGM as their attempt to replicate Universal Studios. Never liked that about Disney's Florida expansions. Made them seem to lack originality.
Originally Posted By HokieSkipper <<Disney sees threads like these, and then rightly assume that theming, backstory, detail, etc. etc. really means nothing-- that in the end Seabase Alpha was just "an aquarium with a story." So why bother?>> There's a difference between a highly entertaining experience chock full of theming and story, and building an aquarium and tacking a story onto it. Which is what I saw from the originally Seas. There was no creativity like Horizons, SEE, JII, and the Land that went into the design. The hydrolators were neat, but the rest of the pavilion failed to capitalize on their coolness. As I said, after the hydrolators it just seemed to be an aquarium with a story tacked on.
Originally Posted By EPCOT Explorer >>>There's a difference between a highly entertaining experience chock full of theming and story, and building an aquarium and tacking a story onto it. Which is what I saw from the originally Seas. There was no creativity like Horizons, SEE, JII, and the Land that went into the design. The hydrolators were neat, but the rest of the pavilion failed to capitalize on their coolness.<<< See, to me, it was about the illusion of being there. The aesthetics tied to the story you talked about made for the gimmick. It was the most immersive locals they've created.
Originally Posted By SpokkerJones "Disney sees threads like these, and then rightly assume that theming, backstory, detail, etc. etc. really means nothing-- that in the end Seabase Alpha was just "an aquarium with a story."" Why does anyone actually believe anyone at Disney cares about any forum? Employees will browse web sites about Disney from work, but I doubt anyone of influence is reading them.
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo Agreed Doug, Living Seas was one of my fav pavilions. Now it is emasculated waste of time.
Originally Posted By EPCOT Explorer >>>Why does anyone actually believe anyone at Disney cares about any forum? Employees will browse web sites about Disney from work, but I doubt anyone of influence is reading them.<<< Oh, they read.
Originally Posted By WDWFigment I'm not too timely with this, and this thread has morphed into something about the Living Seas, so it's probably not even relevant anymore, but the first post is a bit of hyperbole. (Not accusing you of it, Spirit, as you weren't there it seems.) Although I wasn't doing head counts of the ~2k people in attendance for each seminar, I would say the seminar following lunch on the day the Star Tours soft openings "news" broke was one of the most attended of the weekend. If only because it began pouring about 10 minutes before the seminar began. Now, I'm sure some people did skip out on the seminar to visit Star Tours, but I saying people were leaving "en masse" would be a gross mischaracterization. As for the weekend as a whole, it was great. I was quite skeptical after attending the (very lousy) D23 Magic & Merriment event, but Destination D was excellent all around. I had the opportunity to talk with Tony Baxter for a bit, and it was surprising what he said 'off the record'. Obviously he's a human just like anyone else, but I would have thought he'd bite his tongue when around some random rabid Disney fan for free that I might immediately begin tweeting his less-than-Disney-friendly remarks. Anyway, sorry for the interruption. Carry on with the Living Seas discussion!
Originally Posted By WDWFigment ^Geez, that's rife with typos and grammatical errors. Most importantly, Baxter would 'fear' what Disney fans might tweet, rather than 'free' it. Sorry.
Originally Posted By EPCOT Explorer >>>As for the weekend as a whole, it was great. I was quite skeptical after attending the (very lousy) D23 Magic & Merriment event, but Destination D was excellent all around. I had the opportunity to talk with Tony Baxter for a bit, and it was surprising what he said 'off the record'. Obviously he's a human just like anyone else, but I would have thought he'd bite his tongue when around some random rabid Disney fan for free that I might immediately begin tweeting his less-than-Disney-friendly remarks.<<< Well.... You can't come over here and say that without telling what Mr. Baxter said... ;-)
Originally Posted By SpokkerJones "Oh, they read." Yes, I think the people who run these sites are seeing hits from Disney employees, but not ones that have any influence. Like when employees read MiceAge to see what's going on in their own gigantic corporation.
Originally Posted By EPCOT Explorer There have been instances, in which the people that do have influence, have read certain threads and boards.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<Different things have different appeal, I guess. I adored the Living Seas.>> <<I can see why people liked it. But to me it was just an aquarium with a story.>> I was there for the opening in '86 as a wide-eyed fanboi ... and felt amazing when new. I certainly knew that I wasn't taking a hydrolater to the bottom of the sea in the middle of Central Florida swampland. But it didn't matter because the illusion worked and the whole pavilion did what EPCOT did best in its glory days -- it showed what might be possible in a limitless future of technology and people working for the betterment of us all. It aimed high ... and it seemed to succeed quite well. But I could see people not liking it, much like I can see people not liking DAK ... there are many visitors who go to Dizzy World for rides. And they'd still rather ride a relic like Space Mountain 30 times in a few days then spend an hour walking the Pangani Forest or spending 30 minutes wandering through the shops of Morocco. Disney used to be great at balancing thing, so that both mindsets could be accomodated ... now, they've definitely gone over to the Dark Side (obvious shout out to Star Tours debut) where everything has to be about thrills, toons or tech interactivity.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<I'm not too timely with this, and this thread has morphed into something about the Living Seas, so it's probably not even relevant anymore, but the first post is a bit of hyperbole. (Not accusing you of it, Spirit, as you weren't there it seems.)>> I enjoy hyperbole from time to time ... and threads do morph here ... and that's a good thing. <<Although I wasn't doing head counts of the ~2k people in attendance for each seminar, I would say the seminar following lunch on the day the Star Tours soft openings "news" broke was one of the most attended of the weekend. If only because it began pouring about 10 minutes before the seminar began. Now, I'm sure some people did skip out on the seminar to visit Star Tours, but I saying people were leaving "en masse" would be a gross mischaracterization.>> I was not there, so I'm just going by what friends told me and what I've even seen others mention ... perceptions are often different in situations like this. I don't know how many times I've read about parks being packed and horribly crowded on days I've attended and that just wasn't reality. <<As for the weekend as a whole, it was great. I was quite skeptical after attending the (very lousy) D23 Magic & Merriment event, but Destination D was excellent all around.>> I've heard that. I am against the concept of D23 for so many reasons involving what Disney is doing with/to the fan community. But I am glad folks got their $$$'s worth. <<I had the opportunity to talk with Tony Baxter for a bit, and it was surprising what he said 'off the record'. Obviously he's a human just like anyone else, but I would have thought he'd bite his tongue when around some random rabid Disney fan for free that I might immediately begin tweeting his less-than-Disney-friendly remarks.>> Tony has always played it straight with the fans to a large extent. And, now with the finish line of his career in sight, he seems even more willing to be bluntly honest with them. When I ran into him last fall outside the Imagination 'hidden restrooms' and later in the park with MAGICal pals Lee and Martin and a few other spiirts, he was the same way. He just tells it like it is these days. He's not happy with much of what Disney is doing/has done, especially at WDW ... and he is more than willing to state that. He vented quite a bit to a mutual friend last week and none of it surprised me. <<Anyway, sorry for the interruption. Carry on with the Living Seas discussion!>> I think Tony is more interesting ... and the pricier Seas redo he pitched would have also been more interesting than 'toon fish.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<What are they? All I have heard is rumors.>> That's all you will hear. I know for a fact that threads and posters are often read by important spirits at Disney. No one is suggesting that someone in Bob Iger's office is reading every post on every fan site ... They target words and subjects and posters.
Originally Posted By MPierce >> No one is suggesting that someone in Bob Iger's office is reading every post on every fan site ... They target words and subjects and posters. << I'm certainly glad I'm not a target like some people around here.
