DL Unions come to agreement with Management

Originally Posted By Disnerd

BINGO! Now you know why there are so many mediocre Cast Members. During the last 5+ years I have gotten just 2 reveiws. Which had no effect on my pay what so ever. Now you know why you meet Cast Members who won't even say Boo to you.

 

Originally Posted By SpoonCM

Raises based on reviews, otherwise known as merit, do exist though. Maybe not so much in the parks since many unions determine pay levels. From when I was a lowly Foods CM, I got my yearly raise (which I'm guessing was determined by the Foods contract at the time) as well as a COL raise in April. Which is probably why I never had a review in my 3 years there. When I came to hotels, managers were shocked that as strict as the parks are about rules and regs, that I never had a review.

Where I am now, which is a non-union position, I still get two raises: one for COL and one for merit based on review. And not only do I get a yearly review, I get a mid-year review as a heads up for what to improve on before the yearly.

In my current position, I had pretty much started where I left off in Foods. Actually taking a 10 cent cut in my rate. But my pay rate has increased much faster than if I had stayed in Foods. I do not think though that just because there is no real sense of merit, or yearly review, that's why CM behavior sucks. There's more to it than just a review...

(I also wanted to state, since it seemed exaggerated: NOT every CM will have that pay scale...only CMs in that union will be under that pay scale.)

 

Originally Posted By John_CM

I've been the company over 5 years, and can only remember having one review.. about 2 years in.

 

Originally Posted By ChurroMonster

I still don't understand why so many people would work for less than ten bucks an hour when they could wait tables in a decent restaurant and make easily 20 bucks an hour. Or tend bar like me and make 30+ an hour.

 

Originally Posted By monorailblue

^^^ I believe it is because successful restaurants choose to hire people who are competent, energetic, and hard working with a clean, hygeinic appearance, a bright personality, etc. Disneyland *wants* to hire those people, and often does. But lots of the Disneyland's CMs would neither be offered nor could keep an nicer restaurant job--they would just be kicked to the curb because they have a poor work ethic, interact poorly with patrons, and, in the end, just don't care enough to invest any real presonal effort.

That's just my take on it.

 

Originally Posted By Park Hopper

Also for the record.

I stayed away from supermarkets during the grocery workers strike and I would have stayed away from Disneyland had they gone on strike. (I am an AP)

 

Originally Posted By Zwitek

I am not a union member, but my mother was a flight attendant for TWA back in the day, and they struck twice. Aside from my mom literally cutting off my arm for crossing a picket line, I could never do it, as I know what it was that she and many others struggled for.

I was visiting Southern California during the grocery strike, and I had no idea it was even going on. I dropped by a store, and was headed in when a lady in her 30's who was with her young son said, "excuse me, please don't shop here, we're on strike."

I stopped, and immediately apologized. I knew the strike was happening, but it didn't click when I got there that this was one of the stores. The irony of her approximate age, and the young son at her side was not lost on me.

I would never cross a picket, even a Disney one.

I find it disheartening that the CM's are paid so little. I mean, they could get jobs in the mall for the same rate of pay and with less responsibility for other people's enjoyment.

Pity that a place that I love and hold so dear, is not much better than my local McDonald's when it comes to employee pay.

California isn't cheap. Unfortunately, like the aforementioned McDonald's there is always a new crop of young workers that are eager to work there and for little pay.

I'd love to say, "shame on the union" for not fighting for better pay, but then again, what can the union do if the majority of members won't walk?

One thing my mother taught me, nothing worth fighting for is easy, and you have to be willing to lose everything to gain something you believe in.

Ok, climbing off my soapbox now.

 

Originally Posted By woody

>>"you have to be willing to lose everything to gain something you believe in."<<

You have nice sentiments, but the supermarket strike is a fiasco.

The striking supermarket employees alienated their customers from their attitudes. I was offended by what they said to me. What if I decided to not return after the strike? I found alternative supermarkets and never returned.

I read the agreement that ended the strike. What a mess. The hated two tiered benefit system was retained. Many long-time employees were laid-off due to the loss of business.

Some highly paid departments like meat were cut or outsourced. After the end of the strike, they had a bare minimum meat section... thus I stopped shopping at those stores.

Service was cut back. I noticed only two to three cashiers stations are open in my local Alberson's store. It many never return to it's previous business.

Strikes are not as effective as in the past, except for government employee unions. If you believe in unions, work for the government.

 

Originally Posted By Westsider

Woody has excellent points about the grocery strike. The exact same scnearios played themselves out at my Ralphs. Two years after the strike I still do most of my shopping at Trader Joes instead.

As for Disneyland, I'm a dues paying CM of five+ years, I've been to a few union meetings over the years (talk about surreal performance art!), and I feel I have a valid opinion on this latest union business. And let me tell you... the Disneyland unions are pure amateur hour idiots.

This last negotiation process is the perfect example of how ridiculous and worthless the unions are now. For months and months the shop stewards blathered on to their little personality cult cliques about the CR30 rules and the combining contracts concepts they were going to "fight against" and "prevail!". For the past 90 days they hadn't said one thing about wages or pay scales; it was all about CR30 rules and silly contract minutae that no one but shop stewards cared about. A month ago the unions sent out a letter to us saying they were fighting for these things and we had better start saving money to prepare for a strike in March.

Then the regional Teamsters/UCFW organizations got behind the local stewards for the "big" Shareholders Meeting demonstration March 9th, and they issued press releases and talking points to the media that complained about the CR30 rules yet again. They came up with slick taglines like "Disney wants to create a new under-class of workers in Orange County" and they want to "redefine the workweek" by making people work 30 hours a week for benefits. (Shocking! Part time requirements for full time benefits?!)

The point is they ignored the pay scales and wages for months and months and tried to make this last negotiations fight all about the CR30 proposal and other contract nitpicky things. It was not until literally the last 96 hours of negotiations, after the 15th deadline had passed and they were going day to day, that the shop stewards and union officials finally started mentioning wages and pay scales in all of their blather. Once they saw that the Company wasn't budging on the CR30 stuff, they had to drop it and then try to grab something else to talk about.

And that is an amateur and idiotic negotiating strategy. Go after the thing that matters the most to the most amount of dues paying members - wages!

The Disneyland unions have proved to a great many dues paying members that they are out of touch, ineffective, and simply not very bright.

And then, as if that weren't enough, the combined negotiating team representing four different unions showed the cracks in their coalition in the last 24 hours before the vote. The Stores and Custodial stewards broke ranks with the Attractions stewards and began posting flyers Backstage urging people to vote no on the contract. The flyers played up the wage scales and comparative wages at In N Out and Costco. No where on the flyers did it mention CR30, combining contracts, or any of the other "talking points" the unions had been playing up for months and to the media just 10 days earlier. The Attractions stewards were furious and spent that morning running all over the Park tearing the flyers down and trying to calm fears and answer questions raised by the flyers.

We had heard rumors that the separate unions had begun openly bickering with each other in the last week of negotiations, but this flyer stunt last Saturday was the first public proof that there was major dissension amongst the local union leadership.

Don't even get me started on how poorly the unions communicate with their dues paying members. Their communication seems stuck in the 1970's and is based mostly on snail mail communication once per year. There is a corny website that only sprang to life in the last 10 days of the talks, but there is no message board, no email list, and no abilit to share information electronically. These unions are very UN-savvy when it comes to techno-communication and using it to their advantage. There's a reason there were so many CM's who didn't even know what was going on; because NO ONE from the union was telling them anything, even in the last few days of heated negotiations when a strike seemed plausible. That is unacceptable to me after I pay hundreds of dollars to this organization to "represent" me.

Moral of the story; the unions representing Disneyland are disjointed, disorganized, amateurish, unprofesional, and out of touch.

Three months ago they picked the wrong fight over the CR30 proposal, they lost, and they failed to do anything about the wage scales. If they had been united from the beginning about meaningfully increasing wages, had communicated their plan effectively to their members, and then stayed united throughout negotiations, we would have likely had a higher pay scale coming out of this process. Instead, they picked the CR30 thing as their initial battle cry, they stuck with it far too long, the giant bulk of their membership was confused and left in the dark, and they lost. And then they began bickering amongst themselves during and after negotiations when all they had to fight over were the scraps the Company was charitably throwing their way in the final hours. It was a failure.

And In N Out still starts at a higher wage than Disneyland. End of story.

 

Originally Posted By spaceace

Westsider I know how the UFCW works (I have been a member for 14+ years). About 6 months before the negotiations start they send out a questionnaire to the members asking what they would like in the new contract. If enough members do not speak up about what they want there is not much of an idea of what to go for. If you do not like what your union is doing (not sure which one you are with) become involved, first things first get a copey of your contract from your shop stewart, it is your right to have one. Take the time to read it you might learn somethings that might save you or others later. Go to your quarterly meetings. They my suck but at least you can speak your mind to the higher ups. Remember they are working for you. If you are not happy about something let them know. What I am really trying to say is use the system do not just say it dose not work and it is all wrong. What do you think you would have if they were not there? It might be as good. Even if you do not think it is doing any good at least you are telling them there are problems.
Now to go off topic a little more.
Woody, That was the worst 5 months of my life. I would not wish something like that even on my worst enemy. "Many long-time employees were laid-off due to the loss of business". No they were not we have a seniority system. They may have went to other stores."Some highly paid departments like meat were cut or outsourced." This is not true! That was one of the biggest fights. They wanted the unlimited use of vendors and pre-cut meat. The use of vendors did not change. The amount of pre-cut meat did not change. Also the summer of 2004, 6 months after the Socal Strike/Lockout Northern Cals contract was up. The companys found out what was wrong with what they did and everyones contract that came up after this one dose not have the same flaws that are in the SoCal's. The companys found out that it dose not work. For every 4 people that are hired 1 may stay past the first 2 months. That cost them, every new hire is drug tested and that adds up. "Service was cut back". Hours are based on sales. If there is more being spent then people work more hours. I know it is a sucky system but that is how it works, each chain runs there stores differnt but I know that is how Albertsons works. Ok time to duck. This post was not ment to offend anyone, just having a discussion, YMMV.

 

Originally Posted By Bgoofi

"Moral of the story; the unions representing Disneyland are disjointed, disorganized, amateurish, unprofesional, and out of touch. " Wesider

Wesider, it sounds like you were right in the middle of the negotiations.

 

Originally Posted By Westsider

Nope, I wasn't. But I've talked to many stewards, and I have seen exactly what this union does and does not do for it's dues paying members for years now.

I also saw the controversial flyers posted by Custodial and Stores stewards, and then I saw two Attractions stewards run around the Park in a rage tearing them all down and cussing up a storm about the Custodial/Stores unions they were supposed to be "united" with.

Actions speak louder than words in many cases, although just by their words alone it's easy to come to the conclusioon that the Disneyland unions are disjointed, disorganized, amateurish, unprofesional, and out of touch.

 

Originally Posted By iluvdisneyland

"And that is an amateur and idiotic negotiating strategy."


Apparently you have better ideas. How abouts you go to some more of your union meetings, learn up on contractual stuff, and then apply for shop steward. If you don't like it, make it better. And stop complaining. You could be working in conditions far worse if that union hadn't been there.

 

Originally Posted By RoadTrip

<<The only thing in there that I find disturbing is just how little cast memebers make. I cannot believe that it takes fiver years to reach 10.00. >>

The wage progression amounts to 4% per year. That is a pretty nice increase compared to what most people have been getting over the past few years.

After five years a full time CM would be making $20,800 per year. That seems like a pretty decent wage for a position that takes no education beyond High School.

 

Originally Posted By Zwitek

$20,800 per year might sound like a bunch of money, but only to someone not living in California.

 

Originally Posted By RoadTrip

<<$20,800 per year might sound like a bunch of money, but only to someone not living in California. >>

No, it's not a bunch of money... not even in Minnesota. But the combination of pay and benefits is probably at least equal to what you could find anywhere else for a job not requiring any education or training beyond High School.

 

Originally Posted By Tiggirl

Not after 5 years.. at least not in my experiance. As a working adult I've lived in both the Seattle area and Southern California. I did not have an oportunity to go to college after I graduated high school and aside from my first one or two years working I never made so little... and that was in 98 and 99. Not to say that I am rolling in money to say the least but I can't imagine staying in a job for 5 years and only making $20,800. )

~Beth

 

Originally Posted By berol

Jobs with fewer openings than qualified applicants usually have low pay, like newspaper reporters. supply and demand

 

Originally Posted By Zwitek

Quote: "Jobs with fewer openings than qualified applicants usually have low pay, like newspaper reporters. supply and demand"

In N Out Burger doesn't agree with that Big Business mantra. They pay well, have excellent benefits, and make a tidy profit to boot.

Every time I hear the low end retailers, or fast food joints come out in opposition to raising the minimum wage by saying "it'll force us to raise prices, it'll cause layoffs, etc..." I just think of In N Out. Their business model obviously works, and big companies that fear their stockholders will do anything to maximize grotesque profits at the expense of the worker.

Man, now I sound like a pinko-commie. Not true I assure you.

 

Originally Posted By Westsider

>>"Apparently you have better ideas. How abouts you go to some more of your union meetings, learn up on contractual stuff, and then apply for shop steward. If you don't like it, make it better. And stop complaining. You could be working in conditions far worse if that union hadn't been there."<<

No thanks. I don't agree with organized labor from a political standpoint. I also don't want to be associated with a group that has historically used Mob money to run it's business, and been associated with organized crime to the extent the Teamsters have in the last 50 years.

I also wouldn't want to join an organization that has seen it's numbers and influence rapidly dwindle, and who has very little future in American society. When Disneyland opened in 1955, %34 of American workers in the private sector belonged to a union. In 2005 that figure had plummeted to just %8, and it keeps getting lower year after year. Unions are dead.

But if they are going to take my money from me against my will, I want them to get organized, pull their heads out of the 1970's, and fight for things that actually matter, like wages. That they spent so much time and energy fighting the CR30 thing that was destined to fail really bugged me. As if the Disneyland unions were going to single-handedly stop the rising cost of health care in America? Puhleeeze.

Fight for higher wages and pay scales, and you would have a lot more people behind you. Come up with worthless taglines about the new CR30 status like "Disney want's to create a new underclass in Orange County and redefine the workweek" and you will have CM's scratching their heads and wondering where all the dues money goes.