Originally Posted By Sport Goofy << I look at it very simply. The state has X million in its budget. With casino money, the state now has X million plus casino money. That's a good thing. >> Only temporarily. As the economic base erodes (average incomes decline as low-wage casino jobs make up a larger part of the workforce, service industries supplant goods producing industries, facilities and infrastructure costs exceed revenues, etc.), casinos contribute less to an economy than a manufacturing facility or other industry that offers production of real goods and services. You are trading short-term revenue gains for long-term economic and social decline.
Originally Posted By jonvn "casinos contribute less to an economy than a manufacturing facility or other industry that offers production of real goods and services" If no manufacturing or other industry shows up because all those jobs are pretty much in china now, then it really doesn't matter that they end up contributing more, because they aren't here.
Originally Posted By SingleParkPassholder "Only temporarily. As the economic base erodes (average incomes decline as low-wage casino jobs make up a larger part of the workforce, service industries supplant goods producing industries, facilities and infrastructure costs exceed revenues, etc.), casinos contribute less to an economy than a manufacturing facility or other industry that offers production of real goods and services. You are trading short-term revenue gains for long-term economic and social decline." Here's the thing though. Many of these casino workers would be otherwise unemployed and on public assistance, or simply broke and homeless. That they're employed at all is a huge plus.
Originally Posted By Sport Goofy ^^ That statement significantly understates the industrial capabilities of the American people. It's a point of view based on seeing the worst in people rather than untapped potential.
Originally Posted By jonvn It's not the worst in people, it's just that there are NO JOBS for these folks otherwise. Like Elvis, manufacturing has left the building. The jobs you say would be better aren't there. This is what they can do. Let them do it.
Originally Posted By Lisann22 I am California Indian and I have several relatives working at the various casinos. Two female cousins are now blackjack dealers and bring home GOOD money. I have a couple male cousins who are in maintenance bring in $35k/$45k. This is WAY better than where they were before!!
Originally Posted By Lisann22 Cut myself short. One of my great aunts was a short order cook in the Madera area for years living paycheck to paycheck. Now she's a "chef" at one of the nicer restaurants and drawing a living that bought her the first home of her life at 68. It's not all negative.
Originally Posted By SingleParkPassholder "That statement significantly understates the industrial capabilities of the American people. It's a point of view based on seeing the worst in people rather than untapped potential." I'd have to agree with jonvn here. It isn't any such thing first of all to say it's a point of view that's based on seeing the worst in people. What industry do you propose, for example, is going to move out to the Coachella Valley? I'm no expert on how many casinos there are in the area, but off the top of my head, there's the Morongo in Cabazon, Spa Casino in downtown Palm Springs, Agua Caliente at the end of Route 10 in Rancho Mirage, Fantasy Springs in Indio and Spotlight 29 in Coachella. I spend quite a lot of time out that way. In the summer, it's routinely 105, 110 to sometimes 120 degrees. No industry in its right mind would locate out that way. This is all that's out there for a lot of people. As a matter of fact, here's a link to all the Indian casinos and their locations: <a href="http://www.beachcalifornia.com/california-casinos-by-tribe.html" target="_blank">http://www.beachcalifornia.com /california-casinos-by-tribe.html</a> Peruse that and decide what geographical area is prime for burgeoning industry. I recognize in theory what you're trying to say. The reality is much different, however.
Originally Posted By melekalikimaka <<One of my great aunts was a short order cook in the Madera area for years living paycheck to paycheck. Now she's a "chef" at one of the nicer restaurants and drawing a living that bought her the first home of her life at 68.>> Wow, that's really great.
Originally Posted By Sport Goofy ^^ I hope it's great. But if you are just getting started on a mortgage at age 68, how do you pay it off without working for the rest of your life? Hopefully, it's a small mortgage.
Originally Posted By Sport Goofy << I have a couple male cousins who are in maintenance bring in $35k/$45k. >> I hope they don't have to support a family on that income.
Originally Posted By melekalikimaka <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zzZPn1CfQ0U" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v =zzZPn1CfQ0U</a>
Originally Posted By SingleParkPassholder "I hope it's great. But if you are just getting started on a mortgage at age 68, how do you pay it off without working for the rest of your life? Hopefully, it's a small mortgage." I doubt anyone expects to pay off their mortgage. I bought a house at age 45. I can't count on being around at 75 to pay it off, and frankly, although I hope I live long enough, I really don't care if I do.
Originally Posted By Sport Goofy << I doubt anyone expects to pay off their mortgage. I bought a house at age 45. I can't count on being around at 75 to pay it off, and frankly, although I hope I live long enough, I really don't care if I do. >> I guess that would put you in the category of Americans known as affluent. The reality is that most Americans don't fall into this category. They have little savings and meager pensions. If they want to retire, they can't afford to live on a smaller pensioner's income and still have to pay the full load of a mortgage along with all the other expenses of life. Having a mortgage in retirement is not a good thing. However, it will likely be the case for much of the Baby Boom generation. It's one of the reason why economic decline in the United States is inevitable in the years ahead. All the Baby Boomer money that goes to buying cars, TVs, and other discretionary products will be no more once they shift to living on fixed income retirement checks.
Originally Posted By mrkthompsn I'm an engineer who designs gaming equipment for a company who specializes in Indian gaming. The American gaming market is generally divided into three classes. Class I is what is called "Redemption Gaming". These are those cheap wooden video reels games you see at gas stations. These games are legally only permitted to payout in coupons or redemption tickets to buy goods - no cash allowed. When you see new stories about these game being carted out of gas stations by the Sheriff, it is generally because a gas station attendant was illegally paying cash for the tickets. Class II gaming is what is known as "Charitable Gaming". Class II casinos have real slot games that pay out real cash. The house winnings are considered "Charitable winnings". This cash is not taxable by the IRS, and must be distributed through a charitable organization. For instance, if you lose cash at a Cherokee casino, those house winnings get distributed to the operation of the casino and to the general Cherokee Indian population in the form of regular check payments. In other words, people who don't even work at the casino receive casino payment. Plus, some tribes use the cash for medical care, schools, scholarships, etc. So if you go into a Class II Indian casino, understand that the money you lose is generally meant for charity for that entire tribe. Of course, every tribe has their own rules. Louisiana has a series of Charitable Bingo halls. Here, there are slot machines that look like slot machines, but are actually bingo games in the actual game logic. Any charitable organization can host one of these Bingo halls for a certain period of time. All house winnings are untaxed by the IRS and sent to the charitable org. That org is required to distribute the cash to their charity. The state oversees everything. Class III gaming is real hard gaming. This is Missippi, New Jersey, Nevada and a few other up and coming states (Michigan, New York, Pennsylvania, etc.) Everything in Vegas is Class III. The house winnings are owned by the house, and are taxed by the IRS. Class III requires a higher-level of game logic and a significant level of security. It is VERY controlled and very regulated. The high level of games is enticing many Indian tribes. By high level, I mean the "Mercedes" of slot game systems (Bally, IGT, WMS, Aristocrat...) Many, especially in California, are moving from Class II to Class III. The games are so popular that even if the IRS does tax them, they earn more than if they were Class II.
Originally Posted By SingleParkPassholder That's interesting stuff. My late father used to run bingo halls in the state of Washington, and I've got two brothers up there who run a company that designs software for the machines.
