Originally Posted By ecdc >>Over on the airline thread, I posted the factual info about Senate voting records during the election.<< And that's the thing. That's been the theme time and time again for the last few days since dlkozy has decided to make a big splash in WE's. Post something attacking the President - FAA trainings, teleprompters, (you know, REAL important stuff), etc. Someone else posts the facts or corrects her, and she attacks people, then accuses them of nastiness when they respond. I'm bored with the whole thing. It's pointless. And it's tiresome discussing her and other personalities. But I like the people on WE's. I like discussing things with intelligent people of both political parties or leanings. So I'm gonna call it out instead of letting a decent discussion board get hijacked. This stuff is just absurd. It's the very epitome of what's wrong with our country. People give one President a pass for botching a war, then go after another for a freaking teleprompter? Holy crap! Then their defense is, "Well you guys didn't like Bush!" How can anyone be that simple-minded?
Originally Posted By SingleParkPassholder When religious zealots find out one of their own is a homosexual and they send him back to be "cured", how does that usually go? Maybe their plan needs to be re-worked.
Originally Posted By Sport Goofy The whole way this argument is framed is disngenuous. It really isn't a matter of rehabilitation. Perhaps if we pursued these terrorists with legitimate law enforcement methods and standards, we wouldn't be faced with the prospect of having to turn the truly criminal ones of this bunch back to society. Unfortunately, we didn't pursue terrorists this way. We picked them up without any regard for collecting evidence that could be used in a court of law. Most of the supposed terrorists remaining in Guantanamo Bay remain there without a shred of concrete evidence that can be used in a trial. The soldiers and CIA operatives that picked them up on the battlefied made no effort to preserve evidence relating to the circumstances in which most of these individuals were detained. We incarcerated these alleged terrorists in a manner that serves only to inflame their anger rather than cause them to feel any remorse for their alleged crimes by submitting them to torture and hauling them off to an island gulag. Then, we established no legitimate mechanism to try these individuals for criminal behavior. Is it any wonder we have a system that doesn't prevent future crime or serve to rehabilitate people that are subject to this system?
Originally Posted By skinnerbox <<Most of the supposed terrorists remaining in Guantanamo Bay remain there without a shred of concrete evidence that can be used in a trial. The soldiers and CIA operatives that picked them up on the battlefied made no effort to preserve evidence relating to the circumstances in which most of these individuals were detained. We incarcerated these alleged terrorists in a manner that serves only to inflame their anger rather than cause them to feel any remorse for their alleged crimes by submitting them to torture and hauling them off to an island gulag. Then, we established no legitimate mechanism to try these individuals for criminal behavior.>> Inflaming anger through gulag incarceration and torture. If they weren't terrorists before... If your business depends on war, if you make your profits by selling goods and services to the military... why would you want the war to end? Wouldn't you want never-ending battles? Of course you would! Everything Bush and Cheney and Rumsfeld enacted regarding Gitmo, virtually guaranteed fueling the terrorism mindset indefinitely, as long as it remained open. Keep the war going by pissing off our enemies through illegal imprisonment and torture. KA-CHING KBR!! KA-CHING BLACKWATER!! KA-CHING HALLIBURTON!! No mystery here.
Originally Posted By ecdc >>With all due contempt to ex-President Bush, much like I give President Obama a lot of leeway with the wars this year, I can't say that you can put climate failure in Bush's lap. That problem has been snowballing, literally, for centuries now. He truly inherited it.<< Fair enough, and good points. My larger argument is, this is a serious topic for debate. If I'm unfairly putting too much blame at Bush's feet, I'm more than open to hear the arguments and change my perspective (much like I did about torture thanks to the reasoned comments of people on these boards). If someone wants to debate Obama's role in healthcare, the Afghan war strategy, Iraq, etc., let's have at it. I'm interested in all sides and what people have to say. These are big, serious problems that impact our country and, in important ways, each of us. But freakin' teleprompters? Speeches to school children? The right wing is tearing this guy apart over NOTHING and then defending it by saying, "Well people went after Bush!" If someone is so obtuse or mentally challenged that they can't see the difference, our country is doomed.
