Originally Posted By Sport Goofy << No, so you can't make that kind of accusation of low numbers. >> It's not really an "accusation." We're in the midst of a massive global recession. GDP is down over 6%. Unemployment is double what is was a year ago. Why would anyone not believe that WDW attendance was down? Is there some Fantasyland economy that allows WDW to exist in this vacuum where attendance stays high while people are out of work and losing money? Hint: WDW attendance has declined in every single recession since it opened. Why should this one be different?
Originally Posted By sjhym33 I dont have official numbers but my insiders who do tell me that attendance is down a little from previous summers but the biggest issue that Disney is facing is that guests are spending less including food and merchandise. Also, people are being more discriminating concerning the extras like the Water Parks, etc. Having said that I can understand why people are confused on the attendance. Disney seems busy to me when I am out there, but if you look closely you realise that it isnt as busy as summers past. As for the hours. Disney has always followed a formula to decide park hours. The general gist of the formula is that Disney expects the average guest will do X number of attractions in a day (the number used to be 8 attractions but I am not sure if that is still true). On slow days you can do it in a shorter time then on days when attendance is high. The park offers extended hours so that the average guest can get to that X number. This summer I think Disney has decided to do that on a daily basis rather than being open late all summer. It also seems to me that Disney has been backing away from midnight closings for awhile. Lastly, I feel I need to say this. I dont suscribe to the theory that upper management has meetings to think about ways to lessen the guest experience...like cutting back hours. What I do believe is that the days in which Disney made decisions based on the best possible guest experience are over. The people who ran the parks under that model are looonngg gone. The current model that Disney works under is "We are a business" and they run the parks as a business. Even the terminology within the company says that. The department is no longer called Attractions but is now called the Operations Line of Business. I also suspect that California has given a budget to work under and projections to be met. She in turn has passed those directives to the various departments. It is easy to portray people like Meg and Phil Holmes as evil people. I think they are just people trying to do their jobs. Do I like some of the decisions they are making? Not at all. Do I think the old way of doing business was better. Yeah I do. But the people who agree with me on that point have been shown the door several years back. Its time to realise that this is the Disney Company of 2009 and it is not likely we will ever see the old model return.
Originally Posted By sjhym33 My mind always works faster than my hands. The last paragraph should read midway: I suspect that California has given MEG a budget to work under and projections to be met.
Originally Posted By Sport Goofy << It also seems to me that Disney has been backing away from midnight closings for awhile. >> It wasn't so many months ago, before the economic recession that Disney was struggling to get cast members. Turnover was high. It was challenging for a number of years to fill all the shifts. The shortened hours were more a symptom of the fact that, in a tight labor market, employees were more likely to show up for work if it wasn't a late night shift. A lot of maintenance work shifted to daytime to support the desires of the workforce. Of course, the labor market is totally different now, but the policies implemented over the past decade reflect a lot of changes meant to combat a very different problem with hiring and retaining employees.
Originally Posted By MPierce No it doesn't sound like summer to me. It pretty much looks like the operating hours of WDW in the month of January. Due to my aversion to heat, and humidity late January is the only time I ever consider going to WDW. The only difference in what Spirit posted, and the hours for value season, off peak, is that sometimes you have the Magic Kingdom closing at 7:00pm. I use to look at the schedules for the summer, and consistently see closings of Midnight for the Magic Kingdom, and Epcot. As far as attendance, you folks need to read all that interesting stuff that Doobie post here on his site. I can't find the link now, but I know it was listed in Headlines very recently. It was an article on the give aways WDW was offering in an attempt to keep the attendance numbers up. It clearly stated, to the best of my very limited knowledge, that WDW was slightly down, but was not experiencing the double digit dip in attendance that Uni was. I think this was an article in the Orlando Sentinel by Jason Garcia. Maybe Doobie can come to the rescue here, and post the link.
Originally Posted By MPierce Here is a link posted by our own World renown railman sjhym33, in his thread on WDW officially extending free dining. It basicly saids the same thing. <a href="http://www.orlandosentinel.com...24.story" target="_blank">http://www.orlandosentinel.com...24.story</a>
Originally Posted By bobbelee9 thanks sjhym33 for a very level-headed and imformative post, #22. Makes a lot of sense to me.
Originally Posted By Sport Goofy << It clearly stated, to the best of my very limited knowledge, that WDW was slightly down, but was not experiencing the double digit dip in attendance that Uni was. I think this was an article in the Orlando Sentinel by Jason Garcia. >> The article provided talks about specific WDW attendance in the 1Q of this year. The recent article on Universal Orlando talks about attendance in the 2Q of this year. The articles are talking about attendance in two distinctly different time periods. There is no direct comparison being made. Neither article really discusses summer attendance. Only 1/3 of the 2Q is in the summer vacation months. When Disney releases their earnings later this week, it will be easier to see what the impacts are.
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo The thing is, Disney has always traded on this intangible "magic" mantra. Exceeding guest expectations, offering experiences that cannot be found anywhere else, attention to detail, and great entertainment. Since then, sadly they decided to market the magic, but to suck it all out. The legacy of the company turned millions of us into addicts (at my worst, I was a borderline fanatic). Now, the competition offerings are more competative and Disney have not only rested on their laurels, they have actually robbed the parks and resorts of the essence of what made them great. And I know I am not alone in feeling this way, nor spending my money elsewhere. there is a recession, borderline depression, I get that. WDC needs to show a profit to maintain investors, I get that also (afterall I teach and coach senior management teams). But, if there is little payback to guests for spending their hard earned money with the mouse, and joe the plumber is now starting to notice the difference, what brand loyalty will remain? I am seeing this on the European boards where the pollyanna APers are considering not renewing their APs due to all the cut backs. I warned of this one my blog 18 months ago, and we are starting to see some of these results. And just like bankers, the current regime will not care, on their watch, the books will look good, and they will move on to a new firm. And in the meantime the real magic dies. These folks are the 21st century carpetbaggers IMHO.
Originally Posted By Sport Goofy << WDC needs to show a profit to maintain investors >> Sort of. They need to show a profit because the cash flow requirements in the theme park business are so enormous. This wasn't hard 10, 15, or 20 years ago when the VHS business was throwing off an enormous amount of cash flow that could be funneled back into all the other business lines. That cash cow now longer exists and the theme parks have to exist on their own cash flow. Either that, or Disney would need to borrow large amounts of money to keep those businesses going -- essentially the shell game that every other theme park company has played up until now. It's a shell game that is not a sustainable business model when credit markets get stingy.
Originally Posted By wahooskipper Last week occupancy at Coronado Springs was 50% and they are usually in the 70-80% range. The good news was that it was picking up into August.
Originally Posted By bobbelee9 <<And just like bankers, the current regime will not care, on their watch, the books will look good, and they will move on to a new firm. And in the meantime the real magic dies. These folks are the 21st century carpetbaggers IMHO.>> How sadly and depressingly true.
Originally Posted By wahooskipper I'll go out on a limb here. If Walt Disney had to do business in today's economy then Disneyland (or WDW for that matter) never gets built.
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo Possibly skipper, and the same might go for the space programme too. As a global society, we have derisked ourselves too much. Dubai and Macau used to give me some hope, but sadly those things did not seem to pan out either. But Apple, Pixar, Toyota, Dyson, Nintendo all show there can still be hope. I just wish someone came along to really rival Disney to get them to raise their game. It feels like we are in even more of a creative duldrums thanin the 70's which used to be Disney's nadir (except in the parks).
Originally Posted By wahooskipper Good point about the space program. That is probably true. Harry Potter-land may be forcing Disney's hand in Florida. It will be interesting to see if that plays out like the introduction of the two Studio parks.
Originally Posted By Disneymom443 I do wish that Harry Potter land would put a sting in Disney;s behind. I does make me fusterated that as of late Disney is putting all their $$$ into new DVC restorts and two new ships. I feel that they need to improve the parks and add to the parks to make more people come. Not just give them more gimmicks like free dinning or buy 4 nights and get 3 free. Do something wonderful to the parks and people will come.
Originally Posted By itsme >>But Apple, Pixar, Toyota, Dyson, Nintendo all show there can still be hope.>> Nintendo and Toyota both have #'s down starting in the 20 to 40% range and some individual number's creep upward close to 60% from last year. Are you kidding that they are doing great? If Disney ever came out with numbers that bad I cant imagine how people would kill them.
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo I wasn't talking commercially, I was talking creatively. However, Commercially Toyota is still performing better than most of it's peers and Nintendo was the top seller of both the DS and Wii for a few years, enviable position.
Originally Posted By Sport Goofy << However, Commercially Toyota is still performing better than most of it's peers >> Toyota lost more money than GM in the first half of this year.
