Originally Posted By mrkthompsn oc_dean: I certainly think we can't be the only ones out here. God has the power to make all kinds of life projects throughout His universe. The reason I plugged in Leviticus is because it was God Himself making quotes, and using the word "detestable". That opinion would be the same no matter who he applied His law to. I preceded it with Jesus' quote that he was not here to remove any law (any thing that God declared). Those two are one-in-the-same you know.
Originally Posted By TomSawyer You need to read Romans, mrkthompson. Those who live by the law will be judged by the law; those who live by grace will be judged by grace. That's the foundational statement of Christianity in a nutshell, and it takes all of the ancient dietary and cultural rules and says that they don't apply anymore under the new covenant for those who follow Christ instead of the Torah.
Originally Posted By mrkthompsn Keep reading Romans. "Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion." Face it: one man abusively oscillating his manhood in another man's intestines is AOK to tag "detestable". And it is indeed abuse.
Originally Posted By oc_dean >>it was God Himself making quotes<< This is the defining difference between you and me, though, Mark - For some, a book is all the proof some want and need to "BELIEVE". I, on the other hand, question it, and interested in proof to back it ALL up. To what is to some - "The word of God" .. is to me - The Word of Man, and his imaginative & delusional mind, of what he think "God" was. And when I read passages like Timothy 2:12 in the New Testament, That ain't no word of God, that's the word of barbaric men, from a barbaric time!
Originally Posted By skinnerbox <<The reason I plugged in Leviticus is because it was God Himself making quotes, and using the word "detestable". That opinion would be the same no matter who he applied His law to.>> As others have pointed out, the laws apply to Jews. You're a Christian. What the heck are you doing hanging out in the Old Testament? That's not your Bible. <<You need to read Romans, mrkthompson. Those who live by the law will be judged by the law; those who live by grace will be judged by grace.>> Right spot on, TS. Christians like mrkthompson really tick me off. They constantly cherry pick from passages in the Old Testament to push their bigotry and hatred all the while professing their Christian love for everyone. Please. Enough of the hypocrisy. Either convert to orthodox Judaism and give yourself over to the Torah fully, or stay within the confines of Christ's teachings in the New Testament. You cannot have it both ways.
Originally Posted By skinnerbox <<Face it: one man abusively oscillating his manhood in another man's intestines is AOK to tag "detestable". And it is indeed abuse.>> No. You face it. Jesus never said anything about homosexuality. Nada. Zip. You profess to be one of his followers. But you continue to follow Judaic law in this matter. Do you keep the other sacraments? Do you keep your kitchen Kosher? Do you admonish the women in your household for "painting" their faces? Do you honor Shabbat from Friday sundown until Saturday sundown? I'm guessing not. Which means you're not Jewish. SO GET THE HELL OUTTA THE OLD TESTAMENT LIKE A GOOD LITTLE CHRISTIAN AND LEAVE IT ALONE!
Originally Posted By oc_dean My other favorite piece that no Christian never wants to answer is the passage that immediately follows Sodom and Gomorrah in the Old Testament. It's about incest! In so many protest against gays ... we've seen the "Sodom and Gomorrah" on picket signs to use against gays. But Christians are quick to stop there .. and CONVENIENTLY leave out Lott's two daughters getting their dad drunk, and get the two daughters pregnant, in the very next passage. So .... "God spoke against gays" GOD SAID IT! B-U-T gave a pass on Incest! BRILLIANT! The very "God" that makes galaxies containing stars, and planets, and alien life forms - including us! Just so we are not confusing two different "GODS" ... We're talking about the same one. RIGHT??!! See, this is why no logical, rational, human being with common sense could ever give any credence to that book called the Bible as anything other than pure FICTION. Incest! Stoning! Slaves! Womens role in the world! The great flood and Noah Killing every first baby in Egypt, and God lets that happen to prove a point?? And so, much, much, much, much more.... I'm sorry LPers who want to BELIEVE so badly! I'm surprised to those who never bother to seriously question it. ANY of it!
Originally Posted By skinnerbox Cherry picking Christians pretending to be Jewish when it suits them. Hypocrites all.
Originally Posted By skinnerbox Shabbat is on Saturday, oc_dean. Orthodox Jews don't work on Saturday.
Originally Posted By mrkthompsn I am indeed a sinner. I recognize it, and am shameful for it. I am not prideful. You got me on that.
Originally Posted By mrkthompsn I recognize the plank in my own eye. I just love you guys, so I care. The afterlife is real. God is real. It's worth pursuing for all of us.
Originally Posted By CuriousConstance With mrkthompson disgusting comments, I'm going to now pretend that he doesn't exist.
Originally Posted By skinnerbox There's a big difference between a sinner who strives to improve himself and a sinner who uses being a sinner as an excuse to run roughshod over other people's civil rights. So you're personally disgusted by gay sex. Whatever. But you shouldn't use the Old Testament as a Christian to justify your disgust, conveniently forgetting that Jesus released his followers from Judaic law as dictated in Leviticus. There's no use arguing with people like you. I should just stop right now. You're a Jewish Christian hybrid who only honors those parts of both Old and New Testament as it suits your personal biases and beliefs. Much like most of the evangelical anti-science zealots found elsewhere in our nation.
Originally Posted By TomSawyer Since we aren't supposed to be using religious texts as a basis for law in this country, it's frankly irrelevant what they say about this.
Originally Posted By utahjosh I have a vote in this country, and I can base my beliefs on whatever I choose.
Originally Posted By skinnerbox But no one gets to vote restrictions and second class status upon a minority. That's unconstitutional.
