Originally Posted By ecdc So...back on topic from the zealot derailment...here's an interesting article looking at court cases challenging state restrictions on gay marriage. Utah couples who were married elsewhere are suing to have their marriage recognized by the state. <a href="http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/news/56522010-78/utah-marriage-state-lawsuit.html.csp" target="_blank">http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/n...html.csp</a> What I find interesting is how employers are and will be shifting. This lawsuit is heavily financed by the CEO of Overstock.com, which is based in Utah. He notes that he gets applicants or recruits talent from other states who are deeply concerned about moving to a state that openly discriminates against gay couples.
Originally Posted By ecdc >>I have a vote in this country, and I can base my beliefs on whatever I choose.<< Sure, people vote for bad reasons all the time. The larger point is, as skinner mentions, that things like Prop 8 shouldn't even be on the ballot. It's unconstitutional, and the Supreme Court just agreed.
Originally Posted By TomSawyer Sens. Feinstein and Nadler have introduced legislation to repeal all of DOMA. It won't get out of committee thanks to the bigots and superstitious fools still in the Senate, though.
Originally Posted By mrkthompsn If you want to exchange eternal life for abusing another man's intestines, be my guest. But that's what's going on. Even from a husband to a wife, it's abuse. Why cherish abuse as a civil right? Regarding "backwards states", know that California still earns that tag. A majority of voters voted in one direction. That majority is something socially that must be dealt with.
Originally Posted By Dabob2 <The reason I plugged in Leviticus is because it was God Himself making quotes, and using the word "detestable".> You do know that the OT wasn't written in English, right? I mean... right? I gave you the Hebrew word. And it means "ritually unclean for Jews, but not forbidden for non-Jews." It meant that at the time, and it has continued to. It's why Christians can eat pork and not be bad Christians. As I and others have pointed out, we don't live in a theocracy, so what the Bible says should make no more difference to our civil laws than what the Koran says or what the Bhagavad-Gita says. But if you're going to bring up Biblical citations, you should at least know what you're talking about.
Originally Posted By TomSawyer mrkthompson, there's a lot more to homosexuality than what you seem fixated upon. And you seem to be forgetting that what you are describing is impossible for female same sex couples.
Originally Posted By TomSawyer And, besides, what people do in the privacy of their own homes isn't anything that you should be clutching your pearls over.
Originally Posted By ecdc >>If you want to exchange eternal life for abusing another man's intestines<< If you actually believe this, or if you're just trolling, or both, it just kinda makes you an awful human being. See what I mean? If your god saves someone likes you but condemns gay people, he's a pretty crappy god. You should shop around, get a new one. There's lots available.
Originally Posted By RoadTrip <<And you seem to be forgetting that what you are describing is impossible for female same sex couples.>> Actually not. A female couple can tickle the tushie, and a female can tickle a man's tushie as well. That's what toys are all about. Not that I would know.
Originally Posted By Dabob2 <Regarding "backwards states", know that California still earns that tag. > Nope, not still. 2008 polls had the question close, and being outspent by a large margin with misleading ads meant that the anti-equality vote just eked a win. Fast forward 5 years, and polls just before the SCOTUS decision showed CA voters favoring marriage equality by about 20 points. Had SCOTUS gone the wrong way, CA voters would have righted the situation at the ballot box, as did voters in Maine, Maryland, and Washington State last year. Of course, basic rights should never be up for popular vote in the first place, but that's a separate question. You're on the losing side of history here, and even your theology isn't sound.
Originally Posted By RoadTrip By the way... I hope my prior post here did not shock or offend anyone... that was not my intent. Didn't have a great night last night. A severe thunderstorm came through the area where I live between 2 and 3 AM early this morning, complete with 60-70 mph wind-gusts. A lightening strike took out a major portion of a large tree in our backyard. I'm hoping a professional tree service can maybe help me save it, but I'm afraid it will just have to be taken out. It left a pretty substantial gash and burn area on a significant portion or the main trunk. I waited until it got light outside and then checked out my front yard. High wind had taken a couple of major branches off a large tree there, as well as trashing some ornamental trees I had closer to the house. At least I'm sure the big tree can be trimmed and saved, and the ornamentals can be replaced fairly easily. It is all kind of a mess. I've been up for about 30 hours now, spending this morning trying to line up people to take care of things. I needed some "fun', and given mrkthompsn's over-the-edge reaction to certain activities, I just couldn't resist. So I had some fun and posted. I hope my desire to give myself a good chuckle didn't put me on the LP hate list again.
Originally Posted By DDMAN26 <<What the heck are you doing hanging out in the Old Testament? That's not your Bible.>> If you're Roman Catholic, you get the whole thing.
Originally Posted By TomSawyer And then some. My daughter is in Catholic school and knows all about the saints but almost nothing about Moses or David
Originally Posted By skinnerbox OK, I'm confused. Catholic school girl knows nothing about Old Testament heroes. But DD claims that Catholics "get the whole thing." Which is it?
Originally Posted By RoadTrip <<If you're Roman Catholic, you get the whole thing.>> Yes, but I always thought that was to give people an understanding of the hope, love and forgiveness that was now possible through Jesus... things that had been totally missing in the Old Testament. That "For God loved the world so much that he gave his one and only Son, so that everyone who believes in him will not perish but have eternal life." Yea, I know many of you will dismiss that as a Fairy Tale. But to me it presented the real message of Christianity... that God's TRUE MESSAGE was one of love and acceptance rather than the fear and punishment that was advocated by "prophets" before being shown God's REAL viewpoint through the gift of his Son. Kind of like demonstrating the difference between Conservatives and Liberals...
Originally Posted By Dabob2 <I hope my desire to give myself a good chuckle didn't put me on the LP hate list again.> Not at all, I shouldn't think.
Originally Posted By tiggertoo <<I have a vote in this country, and I can base my beliefs on whatever I choose.>> People can believe whatever they want. They cannot, however, force those beliefs on others. That is foundationally the problem with the "Christian" movement to ban same-sex marriage. And it is exactly why it is unconstitutional and why the SCOTUS needed to protect of rights of the people who might believe otherwise, regardless of what a majority of voters said at one point. Do you recall why Madison feared tyranny of the majority?
Originally Posted By TomSawyer I think that Catholic education for young kids probably focuses more on the pantheon of saints since the stories are a little more direct in their meaning. If you spend too much time with Moses and David you start having to look at the OT stories of a vengeful, wrathful God. My daughter just completed second grade and had a couple of projects due around the saints. The saints typically meet gruesome ends, but they do so because they won't turn away from God. It's easier to point to that kind of story as an example of Christian living than most stories from the Old Testament. Side note: my daughter loves the Percy Jackson stories and ancient myths. Her teacher told me that my kid has a vivid imagination but that it's kind of dark. This was the same teacher who had my daughter spend a month working on an assignment about a saint who had her eyes gouged out, and another month studying a saint who was either roasted or steamed alive and who survived a month after three consecutive beheading attempts. I don't think the story of Thor dressing up as a woman to fool the frost giants is in the same league.
Originally Posted By DDMAN26 Skinner-At Sunday Mass the reader will read something from the Old Testament, a book from the New Testament, usually one of Paul's letters to Galatians. And then the Priest reads from one of the Gospels. <<Yes, but I always thought that was to give people an understanding of the hope, love and forgiveness that was now possible through Jesus... things that had been totally missing in the Old Testament. That "For God loved the world so much that he gave his one and only Son, so that everyone who believes in him will not perish but have eternal life." Yea, I know many of you will dismiss that as a Fairy Tale. But to me it presented the real message of Christianity... that God's TRUE MESSAGE was one of love and acceptance rather than the fear and punishment that was advocated by "prophets" before being shown God's REAL viewpoint through the gift of his Son.>> That's pretty much it. BTW everyone ever noticed that God sending his only son to Earth is also the story of Superman. Except Jesus hasn't been known to knock over buildings.
