Originally Posted By pecos bill I dont see a big outcry over this thing because frankly, when you did go see the show, it was like a morgue in there. It was a little uncomfortable sitting through that whole production with perhaps ten people in the audience. I can understand why they would not want to continue, but it would be so nice to see something really imaginative to replace it. A Broadway type show. Something nostalgic, something about old time America, with some great music, and props. If they spent the bucks, and used the talent, they could fill that place up again, but I fear it is going to end up sitting empty for five years and finally turned into something retail.
Originally Posted By aracuanbird Poor poor Abe. The update in the late nineties was another nail in this animacadaver's plastic coffin. I fear we'll never see the likes of him again. Easy as it is to poke fun at this attraction, its history connection represented something so lost at Disneyland...a touch of history, of generations passing on something more than just text book information. The Lincoln show had a reverence and a respect. It had a point of view. In the initial show it was Walt's own perspective on Lincoln, on our nation, what makes us as a people strong, and where our greatest threats come from. The show got creakier by the year and the mid-sixties level showmanship was an unwanted anachronism in most modern audience members' eyes. The attempt to refresh the show with Martin Landau, binaural sound, the buzzing flies and the pervy barber was a step in the wrong direction. All they managed to do was exorcise the original show's soul, its perspective. I think Lincoln, the robot show, should go. But in the great Disney tradition, a more contemporary and appropriate show that shares the same spirit should take its place. When I started this, I thought the punch line would be "and it should replace Muppetvision"...sort of a dig at the old plans to replace Lincoln with Kermit circa 1990. But, you know, doing a new "American nation" show in DCA may give that park a new soul. There were early ideas for California Dreams that were ballsy. There were some really warm ideas for the immigration show at Disney's America (with the Muppets) that I thought sounded clever and appropriate. Who knows?
Originally Posted By oc_dean If they just alternated the Steve Martin/Donald movie .. with Abe throughout the day ... only half the amount of maintenance would be required for Abe. Sort of like the way they alternated American Journeys and the China 360 films in the 80s and 90s in TL.
Originally Posted By oc_dean With more limited viewings of Abe .. perhaps there'll be a bit of surge during those times to see him. Plus .. I see no reason why Disney marketing couldn't do something creative to remind the public it's there. If anyone remembers ... there was a special brown colored ticket attached to the front of each A/B/C/D/E ticket books. They had this right up to the late 70s. I have a few in my collection. I always thought it was a creative approach to remind people it was there. I don't think they really cared about assigning a "ticket value" to Abe. But the ticket sure made it feel like it was something special .. After all .. it appeared on the first ticket .. after a ticket attendant tore off the main "admission" ticket off your A-E ticket book. With each Entertainment schedule or the pocket pamphlet could have a small spot for it. But in this day and age of condensing everything into a one sheet pocket guide in the name of three cents ........ I think Abe is going to go .. because of "three cents"!
Originally Posted By dresswhites they should turn into great moments with captain jack sparrow. that would bring them in! seriously though mr lincoln is an incredibly hard attraction to market. for what ever reason good or bad, the vast majority of people who visit the park just don't have any interest in seeing lincoln. when i work in the park in the late nineties, mr lincoln had the lowest attendance in the park, until innovention opened that is. they tried a different style of approach with the head phones, but that didn't really pull the masses in either. yeah they could bring back lincoln in either its original form or the pre50th form, but i think it is always going to be a lost cause. if people are going to sit through a theater presentation at disneyland it going to be shows like the tiki room or a 3d type film. not a history presentation. i say update the 50th film and just keep that.
Originally Posted By dresswhites maybe in one of the display cases of the opera house they can put mr lincoln there, and put a plaque or give a speil on why mr lincoln was such an important part of disney history.
Originally Posted By markymouse 1. Bring him back, with the pre-50th, pre-blowing in your ear version. People are nostalgic enough, it will work. Maybe add some technology to the preshow. 2. As above, but move him to a smaller and more central location. I've often argued for a small theater in Frontierland. The land is anemic, and needs anything it can get. It would be a nice break during the rush around to the E tickets next door in Adventureland. Frontierland has the most history to its feel. It would be easy to rationalize with a "Mr. Lincoln and the West" preshow. It would be in almost the exact location as the Hall of Presidents at WDW. 3. My least favorite choice, but one I can see Lassiter pushing for - move him to DCA to an area in the studios section devoted to Walt Disney, and play up the animatronic angle.
Originally Posted By USCSurfer In watching the Treasures DVD on Disneyland, you can tell that Disney truly admired Lincoln, and there was a special reason that attraction was developed. And the technology put into its development was astounding. Was it dated? Was attendance in the theater low? Yes and yes. Would Disney himself be bothered to see it gone? That's a good question. He was big on keeping the park moving forward, and keeping it innovative, but maybe Lincoln would have had enough of a special place for him to endure. I guess it would be all speculation at this point. I do like the idea of keeping Lincoln, and adding several other former Presidents to the attraction. That would revitalize it a bit, and still maintain a key concept and attraction that was important to Walt.
Originally Posted By onlyme Unfortunately, you're right, pecos bill, the place WAS a morgue. When the new show began, there were more people, but that quickly died out, and it was left with the usual 12 people for each show. For me, it was all about the nostalgia factor. I'd been going to that show since I can remember. But, I realize that most people do not have this same 'feeling'. As far as whether Walt would bring this attraction back; that's a good question. He DID always want to keep the park fresh and new/innovative. A part of me would be disappointed to see it finally, officially, gone. But, don't mind me, I'm the guy who walks down MS each visit, hoping to see the Hills Bros. Cafe back in business.
Originally Posted By trekkeruss <<Bring him back, with the pre-50th, pre-blowing in your ear version. People are nostalgic enough, it will work.>> Before the blowing, the show was dying, if not already dead. Almost no one went to see it, so what makes you think people would suddenly feel a rush of nostalgia and see a 40+ year old show that doesn't involve pirates or singing birds? <<Maybe add some technology to the preshow.>> IMO the show would need radical reworking that could please both those that want a dignified and educational show and those that need some sugar with the medicine. The binaural show did bring the crowds in for awhile, but obviously it offends a lot of people here. Personally, I didn't think it was that bad. <<Would Disney himself be bothered to see it gone? That's a good question. He was big on keeping the park moving forward, and keeping it innovative, but maybe Lincoln would have had enough of a special place for him to endure. I guess it would be all speculation at this point.>> I'd say Walt would be bothered to see a theater with a handful of people in it that seats hundreds. *I* am bothered by it. I think the easiest way to get people to watch it, or at least sit through it, would be to give guests a gift after the presentation... like a FastPass good on any attraction.
Originally Posted By Sweeper Rewarding people for sitting through an outdated attraction? Well that may lead to the Space Mountain queue going Innoventions as a requiremnet for a ride! Just let Mr. Lincoln rest in peace. No more revivals in postmodern style please. I'm sick of attractions focusing on me. Journey through "your" imagination, etc. I'd rather go through Walt's! I go to Disneyland to get out of my head. And I don't want some virtual person blowing in my ear or a virtual hair cut. Getting a hair cut isn't a big thrill! And ear blowing should involve a live person or its just pathetic. Lincoln R.I.P.
Originally Posted By walt100 My point in bringing up the Lincoln library is that they use a variety of techlology to maximum effect. With the current show at Disneyland, the lack of both budget and imagination are readily apparent. If Lincoln has to go, I would prefer that it be moved to Frontierland. That at least would keep it alive. The problem with saying that it should go, is that no one seems to have a good idea as to what should replace it. Disney may put in a pin store, or John Lassiter may decide to put in another Pixar themed show. Personally, I wish that he had the same passion for the Lincoln attraction as he does for the rest of the park. (Maybe he does, I don't know) But perhaps then some money would be put into a better show...Maybe we can get Corey Burton who did such a great Paul Frees impression for Nightmare before Xmas HM,to do the narration for a new Lincoln show...
Originally Posted By trekkeruss The plain ugly fact is that very few people care about the Lincoln show.
Originally Posted By Hans Reinhardt "He was big on keeping the park moving forward, and keeping it innovative, but maybe Lincoln would have had enough of a special place for him to endure. I guess it would be all speculation at this point." As much as Walt Disney has been made out to seem like some sort of saintly grandfather character he wasn't stupid. I'd be curious to know exactly how much Disney was paid by the State of Illinois to develop Lincoln for their showcase at the NY World's Fair, for example. If there was one thing Walt Disney understood it was how to entertain people. I would like to think that as a showman he would have dropped the Lincoln show at DLR a long time ago and replaced it with something else equally groundbreaking and new for today's audiences.
Originally Posted By Hans Reinhardt "My point in bringing up the Lincoln library is that they use a variety of techlology to maximum effect." Hey, why not move the show to the Lincoln Library? It would certainly be playing to the right audience and be shown in a more appropriate context.
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo If Lincoln goes, I would like something cool that celebrates our nations history. I am a little upset that we cannot see him next trip, as these things that "nobody" seems to care about make up the Disney difference to me. If the choice is between SM and Lincoln, Lincoln wins. But I know I am in the minority. That said, a part of me is glad I can see the 50th exibit since we were unable to be there at the time.
Originally Posted By jonvn You have to take out old stuff and put in new stuff. Things just fade over time, and the old must make way for the new. That's how everything is. At Disney, it was long tradtion that when you did this, the new would be much better than the old. That has sort of gone by the wayside. It makes me want to not see them replace it now, because I think what they'll likely replace it with is something just abysmal. They have lost sight of the concept if you can't improve something, just leave it alone. Change just for the sake of change is meaningless. Very few people in or out of Disney seems to get this. I'm all for taking Lincoln out and replacing him. But with what? Yet another 3D movie? Cartoons? A dancing Clara Cluck the chicken show? So leave him in there. They can't improve on it, they have no talent at all to do so. The last iteration of Lincoln proved that.
Originally Posted By Dabob2 I think perhaps Lincoln should be moved to a smaller theatre. Perhaps Frontierland. Or perhaps as part of an exhibit on Walt Disney; either in the Opera House as part of a new WD Story (but in a smaller theatre, thus leaving space for other things), or in the Cathay Theatre replica going into DCA, which is rumored to be all about "Walt's time in California" or some such. As the first real AA human figure, the figure itself has historic value (though certainly the technology has changed within him since 1964), and a direct connection with Walt. Put him in a smaller theatre that seats 50-100, and those who want to see him can, without the uncomfortable feeling you get by sitting in a near-empty theatre. Then you free up space in the Opera House for something else.
Originally Posted By gadzuux My hunch is that they'd just drop another film in there. It's too cheap and easy, and they've shown a repeating pattern lately of calling movies "attractions". But the steve martin 50th film has shown us that putting a short film in there isn't all that compelling of an attraction. I can't imagine that it's pulling in many guests these days. They could use the theater for a live show, but that probably limits the amount of shows per day - maybe five or six performances daily, and that would bring the daily guest count back down to around where it is now. A new animatronic show would be best - allowing for the show to cycle several times per hour all through the day, which keeps the guest count up. But that takes money and yes - talent. It would need to be 'family friendly' which is tougher to do than people might think. Trying to create something that would be entertaining for kids AND adults alike, AND themed to turn-of-the-last-century 'main street usa' would be a real challenge. I think they "could" do it, I just don't think it's likely. My one idea would be an old-fashioned magic show. The showroom could be rigged for specific tricks and illusions, so if there were actually a live CM hosting, they wouldn't necessarily need to be an adept magician - just keep up with the spiel and the illusions would pretty much perform themselves. But yeah - I think lincoln needs to be packed away as a relic of a different time. I actually like the idea of sending him off to the lincoln library, but I doubt they could take on the maintenance challenges of operating an animitronic figure over the long term.
