Originally Posted By barboy skinner, you disappoint me.........if you can't take a bumper tag, a well played double- entendre at that, then how can you cope with real issues threatening our way of life like the EXPO(brought to us by Home Depot) closing its doors, Gerardo of 'rico suave' fame turning born again Christian or being avalanched by 3-D format. Next you're going to tell me you take issue with "Obamanation".......sheesh
Originally Posted By barboy Why yes Lisann22, go right ahead and I will applaud. But I think an even better car sticker for Santorum would read: "Honk(y) for change"
Originally Posted By Dabob2 >>why is it alright for a black person to call another black person "the N" word?<< It's called "context" and "intent." Words in themselves are essentially meaningless. Just a collection of letters and sounds. "Duck" is just one letter away from the f-bomb. One is appropriate in every setting (assuming the topic is in fact ducks); the other can not be said on broadcast TV, is considered beyond the pale by many people in just about any circumstance, etc. etc. (Not by me, but by many.) And they're just one letter apart! Words considered filthy or hurtful in other languages are nonsense words in English, meaning exactly nothing. So it's silly to argue about words per se, unless one takes intent into account. Words are what we use to convey intent, thoughts, and feelings. Consider the word "Jew." On its own it can be a neutral descriptor, e.g. "I am a Jew." A simple statement of fact, or even something to be proud of. Yet it can also be used as a pejorative, all depending on the intent. Consider the difference between: "I am a Jew." and "Hey - don't you try to Jew me!" Can you not see the difference, and why one is offensive, and one is not? So what was the intent behind this bumper sticker? It's pretty obvious. The intent is to say: Obama should not be president because he's black. And we shouldn't make the "mistake" of re-electing him, because he's black. It gives no other reason. And for those it would reach, needs no other reason. It is not a "well-played double entendre," it is a statement that a black man should not be president. That is the intent. And if you can't understand why that is an offensive intent, I don't know what to tell you.
Originally Posted By ecdc I'd just add to Dabob2's excellent post, that in addition to context, there's a large cultural history to consider. The argument for "no one should use the N word, black or white" is essentially an argument for colorblindness. It's a common theme trotted out--it's also used against affirmative action. The idea is that in order to not be racist, one must be colorblind and think that race doesn't matter. While I think it's a well-meaning perspective, it just doesn't work. It ignores an overwhelming history of race in this country, the black experience, etc. You can't just make that disappear or not count overnight. Maybe someday true colorblindness will happen, but certainly not in my life time, or my children's, or their children's. So in the meantime, we need to navigate these issues. African Americans have reclaimed, in a way, the N word as a way to strip it of its power from white people. It's a way of asserting their power after historically having none. It's, in a way, an acknowledgement of the past mistakes that are worth keeping in mind.
Originally Posted By TomSawyer The racism inherent in the bumper sticker aside, the play on "renege" doesn't even make sense in this context. To renege means to go back on a commitment or promise. The bumper sticker is essentially saying, "Don't go back on the choice we made in the last election." So, not only is the bumper sticker racist, it is also encouraging the re-election of Obama. And, as such, the people who are putting it on their cars are utter morons - i.e. the GOP base in the South.
Originally Posted By ecdc >>So, not only is the bumper sticker racist, it is also encouraging the re-election of Obama.<< I'm glad I'm not the only one that thought this.
Originally Posted By Lisann22 My family had a good laugh about the actual definition of the word. <rolling eyes>
Originally Posted By DDMAN26 White people using the N word that has been used to denigrate=Wrong and offensive Black people using the N word as a term of endearment= Just part of the culture. All right whatever.
Originally Posted By skinnerbox I'm guessing it didn't penetrate, Dabob. I was slammed not long ago in another thread about calling gay folk 'queer.' I believe it was you who came to my defense, about how this term is used all the time by gays in my Castro neighborhood amongst themselves. I believe the explanation in post #44 proves the point of its use. Its use is to take away the power that heterosexuals have had for centuries over homosexuals. It's a form of protest, a form of defiance. I'm certain the use of the N word amongst African-Americans is the same.
Originally Posted By DDMAN26 No I got 44. The bumper sticker shows a lack of respect to the office of the President and to black people in general. But the fact the word is used as a "term of endearment" amongst black people especially young black males to me shows an equal lack of respect that those who you use their word have for their fellow people.
Originally Posted By Dabob2 But remember, intent is everything with language. Do the guys on "Queer Eye" mean disrespect for gay people just because that word was in fact used for a long, long time to disrespect gay people? No. As someone said, gay people have claimed that word, attempting to strip it of its power to hurt. It probably sounded strange to you for a while when you first heard gay people using it that way (it did to me); now it's so ubiquitous, we're all sort of used to it. We can argue all day over whether it's a good idea for black people to do the same (and I've heard black people argue both sides of this), but there's no question that a black guy using the word for his friend has a different intent than a white guy using it as a pejorative.
Originally Posted By SpokkerJones ">>why is it alright for a black person to call another black person "the N" word?<< It's called "context" and "intent."" If the intention is to demean each other, then those who use it are doing a pretty good job of it. The word as a term of endearment is often followed up by a lot of other vile and disgusting things.
Originally Posted By SpokkerJones "This is now on yahoo news. I really NEED to stop reading the comments sections of those stories. Get this one: "obama is a murderer, a traitor, a globalist, a crook, a criminal, and a fraud...and people cry because a bumper sticker is offensive? our government starting wars every month and murdering millions of innocent people AND stripping us of our rights offends me!!"" I don't agree with the specific things that anonymous commentator has to say about the president's action but the general sentiment is sound. This and Rush Limbaugh is what we get up in arms about while the president moves so far to the right that he's practically Bush III. Erosion of civil liberties and continued military entanglements overseas should be this president's legacy. Those are the things I'm outraged about, not some dumb bumper sticker.
Originally Posted By Dabob2 <If the intention is to demean each other, then those who use it are doing a pretty good job of it. The word as a term of endearment is often followed up by a lot of other vile and disgusting things.> And often is not. I have black friends who use it with each other, in a downright affectionate way. Gay friends of mine use "queer" the same way. It's all about intent.
Originally Posted By SpokkerJones You should consider hanging around blacks who are not your friends. Try an inner city high school classroom, or an inner city public transportation route, and hear what follows that word. Women would be especially offended.
Originally Posted By Dabob2 <You should consider hanging around blacks who are not your friends.> Are my friends not "black enough" for you? <Try an inner city high school classroom, or an inner city public transportation route,> You mean like the one I ride every day? <and hear what follows that word. Women would be especially offended.> I'm only offended by your lumping all conversations (and all black people) into one bag. I ride the subway every day. I hear conversations between black people every day. Sometimes they use the n-word, sometimes they don't. Sometimes it's affectionate, sometimes less so. Sometimes they disrespect women, sometimes they don't (sometimes the people using the n-word ARE women).
Originally Posted By gurgitoy2 I'm with Dabob2 here. I also ride the subway every day and hear it all the time. Even from non-black kids. In those cases, I wish they wouldn't use it, but it's become just another word apparently. It's just so common to hear it these days. It is never used in the negative way, but more like "brother" or "dude". I may not like it, but it's not my place to say who can or can't use it. I just would never, ever use it myself. I have no reason to.
Originally Posted By mele That's how I feel, too. Most of my friends are lesbians...we *sometimes* use the word "dyke" in jest. It's a million times different than some guy screaming it at them while they walk down the street. It's not just a gay/non-gay thing but the fact that I am friends with the people I might use the word with. I would never, ever say it to someone I didn't have a close relationship with out of fear it would be misconstrued. I also wouldn't use it in a group setting where I didn't know everyone involved because I don't want to offend people. I have no problem with someone calling me queer; I've called myself queer even though I am in a hetero marriage. The word doesn't hurt me because I have nothing to lose. I could see how others would be offended or afraid. Again, it's ALL about intent.
