Originally Posted By birdsNworms Considering the reception here, I have taken the last week or so to decide whether to share this information with the LP community. As a few, but only a few, fellow posters have been forthcoming and brave enough to share their own personal experiences, I thought that trumped those who chose to troll on this thread and slam the OP. My skin, however, is quite thick and the juvenile candy-coated, word-spun rants that went far off-topic have not quelled my interest in or knowledge of what is/has been going on. I have rewritten this for space and privacy reasons. It occurred to a friend of mine within the Industry and I thought LP might find it interesting. Or...whatever. It is posted here with his/their permission. ... We took our twelve year old on a family vacation to WDW just about a year ago during which we stayed on Disney property. The Grand Floridian, booked by my assistant because it is branded as the best of Disney's on-property resorts, the closest thing it has to a five-star. Upon making the reservation, the agent asked the names of each member of our party -- actually, it was more of a demand. ("We need to know who will be staying in the room.") Along with my wife, my son's name was given along with his date of birth, ostensibly to further personalize 'his' Disney experience, and that of his cousin who was also joining us on the trip. My assistant was even asked, "Who is *****'s favorite character?" To imply, I suppose, some sense of familiarity with my son (using his actual name which she had only moments ago learned). Once at the resort, my son was given a card -- with his full name imprinted on it -- that granted him access to the room, to all of the WDW parks, to Disney's FastPass system, and also to charging privileges...which I could have opted-out of, but it, admittedly, made sense given the explanation provided by the desk clerk and that it would be required for payment on the DCL part of our trip [which far surpassed our expectations]. We had an enjoyable time. No significant disagreements, among the family or with other guests or cast members. No problems of any substance whatsoever despite the GF being nothing close to the 5-star experience Disney's competitors provide. My son, who likes the old-school rides of Fantasyland, loved using his FP for Peter Pan and every other attraction he could at the MK, enjoyed Finding Nemo and Lion King at AK along with the safari and Everest, and did not eat mac n'cheese or chicken fingers once. Rather, he had a terrific time swiping that "room key" for rides, shows, and purchases as well as all sorts of food during the FWF at EPCOT. (Perhaps my punishment for forcing him into the breakfast at Cinderella Castle.) Inadvertently, it was his key that had been swiped for his cousin's 'tea party' experience at the GF. As well as a few purchases she wanted to make including a monogrammed umbrella over at EPCOT's France and a princess-style costume at DD. This, of course, was not an issue for us as she was our guest, had a room key of her own and, I suspect, her cousin (my son) was being something of a chivalrous type by pulling out his card and signing for the purchases. If only it were that simple. When, a few months later, my wife started to notice the Disney On Broadway offerings coming in our son's name, the catalogs skewed toward pixie and princess merchandise, and third-party mailings also in our son's name that were, to be generous, less than what you would target toward a tween or teenage boy, an alarm went off. Disney had followed each purchase, each scan of that 'key', which allowed its data mining department to profile our son. As a...as either a girl or a so-called alternate lifestyle boy. (He has, incidentally, a very masculine name.) And, no, we are in no way disparaging anyone who lives a lifestyle others may deem to be outside of the mainstream or somehow different. It's just that this big company that we had spent several thousand dollars for the privilege of a quality family vacation had exploited our visit in a most insidious, vulgar way. One that, as my wife and others who are aware of this situation stated, could have far-reaching and very damaging consequences. Only half-joking, she wondered if we would be receiving a 'complimentary' subscription in his name to Out Magazine courtesy of TWDC. No, that did not come in the mail. Not yet, anyhow. He has, however, been solicited by several large scale home decor/finishing stores that would have no other way of having gained TWDC's 'alleged' insight into the buying habits of our son. Of which, he has no interest in home decor as his mother repeatedly apologizes to our guests at the mere sight of his room. He's a year older now. And, while he still rides PPF, one thing has changed dramatically -- his view of TWDC. Imagine being all of twelve and being exploited to this extent, to the point that a major company is branding you, your child, an 'alternate lifestyle' person because of some data that he had no real control over but TWDC made plenty off of. birdsNworms says... Data that was faulty from premise to practice. To those who think data mining is done to enhance their experience, that it has even the slightest hint of nobility, that just is not the case. It is about closing doors, not opening them. Micro-marketing being an oft-discussed off-shoot of it. With WDW, just the beginning of this massive investment's 'return' is offering one guest a room at a deluxe resort for a forty percent discount while telling another that the same resort on the same dates for the same category of room is only available at rack or is entirely unavailable. You don't score anything unless you intend to have winners...and losers. Unlike others, I am not arrogant enough to believe I am assured to be the former. And, for all of those "defenders of da man", the only -- the ONLY -- company that I know of that takes and archives your children's fingerprints is TWDC. All, by the way, for the price of admission.
Originally Posted By birdsNworms Among all of this, there is one matter that must be pointed out. Many of the regular posters here have started their own threads over the years when they have had an experience that was not as it should have been, as it was promised [contracted] by Disney. And yet, there is either absolute silence on the idea Disney might be playing with an iron fist and a "bought by the buck" smile or outright calling the OP something worse than a liar -- like, let's say, an attorney for TWDC. If LPers are going to come to this board when things do, and they often do, go wrong, it is more than disingenuous for this 'duped' thread to have somehow attracted such negative feedback directed at the OP. Feedback that is rarely on-topic and leaves the rational mind to consider that these same individuals who have complained in the past (just check the posting history on LP.com) and claim they have nothing to hide might well be cowering in the corner in fear TWDC might just be monitoring every post, and every word in that post, they make. To the one poster with the ADA complaint, which I am familiar with (for those who are not, TWDC elected to violate federal law and asserted that as an independent district -- Reedy Creek -- they were somehow not bound by it...totally nonsensical stuff), I cannot get involved directly in this or any matter. The thread was to stimulate the fan community to speak out -- to start a dialogue on the topic, the root purpose of a forum such as this. The same for the fellow from the Dallas-area, whose hair went aflame. That's a real vacation memory, and for TWDC it was almost certainly less than a reconciliation cost of $150 [that's not what TWDC pays out, but the net revenue displacement]. You are both thanked for your willingness to post on and openness to this topic. Silence, however, as the saying goes, speaks volumes. Right, my fellow lurkers...?
Originally Posted By birdsNworms Now imagine this, the value of a database the likes TWDC is gathering. A constantly growing database that TWDC gets you and me, the consumers, to actually pay for through our admissions. Profiles with fingerprints of millions upon millions of individuals from all over the world. That, fans, is one heck of an asset. If a profoundly immoral one.
Originally Posted By FerretAfros "My skin, however, is quite thick and the juvenile candy-coated, word-spun rants that went far off-topic..." So here's another off topic rant? It's a nice story, but what does it have to do with Disney not honoring its agreements? "I have rewritten this for space and privacy reasons. " You mean that is the short version? I could have said the same thing in 2 paragraphs. I'm glad you shortened it, since it was enough work to get through that version of it. I don't see anything wrong with the data mining. Yah, it's kind of silly that it came in the boy's name, but they knew that someone there was interested in that stuff. It works the same way when mom or dad buys the stuff with their credit card, and then dad is getting ads for princess costumes. Disney saw that either he or someone he is affiliated with was interested in buying that stuff, and so they thought there was a chance that they could sell more stuff to him. I really don't get what the big deal is. If he is so humiliated by that, then maybe his parents should talk to him about being comfortable with who he is, and what junkmail is. "To the one poster with the ADA complaint, which I am familiar with (for those who are not, TWDC elected to violate federal law and asserted that as an independent district -- Reedy Creek -- they were somehow not bound by it...totally nonsensical stuff)" They created Reedy Creek ages ago, and there was never any problem with it from a legal standpoint. If the government wanted to make a fuss about it, they've had plenty of chances, whenever Disney has opened a new park or hotel on the property. They originally created it to make it easier to build EPCOT (the city), but that never happened, so now it's basically just making it easier to do all the random construction maintenece that goes on (and have private fire departments). The ADA did not come along until about 30 years after Reedy Creek, and is not really related at all.
Originally Posted By FerretAfros "If a profoundly immoral one." Why is it immoral? How do you define being moral? And how does this go against it? There is nothing that I do on Disney property that I'm not OK with them monitoring. It's just part of how it works. It's private property, and with it comes a reduction of your basic freedoms. If you don't like it, go somewhere else. I was actually talking with a friend the other day about how Disney can't even manage to connect your usernames on its websites, so I really don't think there's a huge issue here. I think I've registered myself (with the same email and screenname) on Disney's various sites at least half a dozen times (main Disney site, DLR site twice, WDW, ESPN, Toontown Online), and they never seem to be connected. If they can't even figure that much out, then why should I be concerned that they know that I like to shop in the World Showcase and wear a poncho when it rains?
Originally Posted By trekkeruss <<It's a nice story, but what does it have to do with Disney not honoring its agreements?>> Nothing, of course. Someone has an ax to grind. Why muck that up with actually trying to stay on-topic?
Originally Posted By Mr X I love how he worked in "Grand Floridian sucks" twice as a completely irrelevant non-sequitur. If it was twice as subtle, it might even have been clever.
Originally Posted By Mr X ***It's private property, and with it comes a reduction of your basic freedoms.*** Er, that's a bit of a strange way to put it. But then again, considering how many of your civil rights you knowingly or otherwise give up the moment you step up to an air ticket counter, I guess you're right.
Originally Posted By RoadTrip Big fricking deal. The bird needs to get a life. My dog gets credit card offers. SO WHAT?? Such is life in the 21st century. If you can't stand the heat get out of the kitchen. There are many third world countries where you would not have to worry about database marketing.
Originally Posted By Mr X Of course, anyone who is really that concerned about it could've simply paid for everything with cash. Duh.
Originally Posted By demderedoseguys Yup. Now Disney is the root of all evil and a symbol of what is wrong with the world. LOL.
Originally Posted By vbdad55 "If a profoundly immoral one." -- do you own a credit card ? ( this information is shared more than you know- read the privacy agreements carefully) Do you use a shopping card for a grocery store ? ( they track your habits not just give you a buy one get one free item) do you have a drivers license ? ( you know they sell your information right . literally everything you do today is electronic in nature and yes is captured. You know for your son you could have opted for a 'non-charging ' card. By allowing him to have the freedom to charge items to his room, IMHO you agreed to Disney tracking who was buying what. I work for 32 years in the IT industry - and data mining is far from a new concept. If you are going to allow freedoms ( like charging capabilities) to someone...then data trackng is going to occur. not sure where the breaking of agreements comes in at all...what am I missing ?
Originally Posted By vbdad55 Of course, anyone who is really that concerned about it could've simply paid for everything with cash. Duh. ------------------------- yep- again when you give someone 'charging' capabilities - then expect not to have those tracked I think you are naive. Disney has a right to collect those debts and will track them...
Originally Posted By danyoung >Do you use a shopping card for a grocery store ?< I'm actually enjoying the data mining that my grocery store (Kroger's) does. About every other month, I get a packet of coupons in the mail that are directly targeted at me, based on purchases that I regularly make. What a concept - giving me coupons that I can actually use to promote further purchases in the store. How diabolically immoral!!!
Originally Posted By MPierce birdsNworms, If you could explain the relationship between your post #1, and your post #198, I would be ever so grateful.
Originally Posted By danyoung Yeah, MP, it does seem as if we have two distinct threads going on here. I find myself disagreeing with the OP on both of them, so at least I'm consistent!
Originally Posted By birdsNworms Briefly, while I am away from the office and at your request: Posts #1 and 198 are tied together by the downside of the kind of profiling TWDC does that determines whether Disney will honor an agreement based on its data mining of the individual/family with whom the agreement was made. It is not all that dissimilar to credit scoring, only it is far less tangible. And we all know how reliable credit scoring is. As for the GF, it is a favorite and the resort most often recommended (so I am not sure where this confusion comes from). As for the wedding album and the sports stuff posted to this thread, I am still trying to find that connection. I hope this more succinctly articulates the point others have claimed they could have made in "two sentences" while, at the same time, demanding even more. Hmm,..
Originally Posted By danyoung >Posts #1 and 198 are tied together by the downside of the kind of profiling TWDC does that determines whether Disney will honor an agreement based on its data mining of the individual/family with whom the agreement was made.< I guess I'm confused. Post 1 had absolutely nothing to do with data mining - nothing. I don't have a problem with thread drift. In fact, I usually enjoy it. But it seems you're making a huge point in post 1, and then an entirely different point in post 198, and then attempting to tie them together into some type of diabolical plot. It simply makes no sense to me.
