Originally Posted By FerretAfros Post 198 didn't say anything about Disney not living up to its promises, so how do they use data mining to decide if they will do that? I would be really interested to know what they do (if they are in fact data mining to determine if they will uphold their agreements), since that just sounds fascinating to me. Some sort of statistical measure of how likely you are to take action against the company... Anyway, I still don't see what post 198 has to do with that, but it's an interesting Big Brother scenario that could potentially happen. With the way that Disney seems to be organized (and how often they lose track of simple things like reservations for dinner), I'm not terribly concerned about this happening.
Originally Posted By vbdad55 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^ true of most scenarios -- there is far more information available about each one of us out there than any one group has the skill to reign in togewther- from different operating systems - different repositories, in different formats etc...
Originally Posted By bobbelee9 For years CVS has been keeping track of what I buy, and how many more Hershey bars I have to buy to get a free one. Today I got an e-mail from Barnes & Noble "because you previously bought a book by ........" If I received anything offensive from any of the companies that track me, I would let them know.
Originally Posted By Mr X ***And we all know how reliable credit scoring is.*** Um, very reliable? Yeah, that's the answer. Very reliable. For the institutions that make use of it, of course. Because, my naive friend, credit scoring is not intended to be a method for you to get your shiny new flat screen TV whether you deserve one or not (and have no cash to purchase it in any case), but rather a resource for banks and lenders to weed out the less worthy, in order to hedge their own risk. So yeah, it works just fine. If you had some trouble, or even a thousand of you, why would any of that matter to the institutions? You're simply a risk assessment to them, a statistic, and when you take their money, a potential liability.
Originally Posted By Mr X ***As for the wedding album and the sports stuff posted to this thread, I am still trying to find that connection.*** If you were a member of this community rather than a haughty and sarcastic troll, you might well realize the connection and importance of this..perhaps even enough to apologize for your insensitivity. Somehow I doubt it though.
Originally Posted By RoadTrip <<If you were a member of this community rather than a haughty and sarcastic troll, you might well realize the connection and importance of this..perhaps even enough to apologize for your insensitivity.>> Thanks for the support Mr X. I knew it was a brief hijack... I even mentioned it in my post: <<Sorry to temporarily hijack the thread, but it is a good hijack!>> I've been around here long enough to know that some of the most interesting parts of threads is when they take a serendipitous turn. The bird and worm apparently has not. I don't need or even want an apology though. Even with what I'm going through right now I have something in my life that I don't think the bird and worm has much of... JOY.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<Briefly, while I am away from the office and at your request: Posts #1 and 198 are tied together by the downside of the kind of profiling TWDC does that determines whether Disney will honor an agreement based on its data mining of the individual/family with whom the agreement was made. >> I got that. I'm reasonably certain that profiling went into the situation I mentioned involving Space Mtn in Anaheim ... as the family were service-workers and immigrants and likely not in the best financial position. In other words, not the type that was likely to sue Disney or make a fuss. <<It is not all that dissimilar to credit scoring, only it is far less tangible. And we all know how reliable credit scoring is.>> Are you saying we shouldn't trust the three major credit bureaus that determine our worth as human beings? Shirley, you jest. <<As for the GF, it is a favorite and the resort most often recommended (so I am not sure where this confusion comes from). As for the wedding album and the sports stuff posted to this thread, I am still trying to find that connection.>> Discussions in the LP often morph into subjects having very little to do with the original post/topic. That's actually one of the great things about this site (that you'll see if you stick around). I can think of other places where this would have been moved, closed or otherwise altered. And while weddings and sports have little to do with data-mining or whether Disney pulls offers it extends regularly (you don't have to convince me they do it sometimes because I know for a fact you are correct), they are also more pleasant topics for discussion too! <<I hope this more succinctly articulates the point others have claimed they could have made in "two sentences" while, at the same time, demanding even more. Hmm,..>> If you've followed this site, or any, you'll realize that often is the response. If you give a long-winded post (trust me, I'm an expert on this ... just ask old man Pierce) then you'll often be accused of filibustering. If you just state something as fact, then you'll be asked to prove it (even if sometimes you can't because it isn't something that can be proven online or because of personal/privacy issues of your own). And, if you still do it, there will still be some who just say you're full of it. But believe me, you're dealing with a more open audience here than other Disney forums. But you're also likely being read in Burbank as well ... not that there's anything wrong with that!;-)
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<Anyway, I still don't see what post 198 has to do with that, but it's an interesting Big Brother scenario that could potentially happen.>> I'm not sure whether the young man mentioned in Wormie's post will get an offer for Out Magazine (BTW, anyone see how Sarah Palin's daughter's baby-daddy, Levi Johnston, is gonna show his johnson for Playgirl? I know Pierce is on top of this story!) ... but it is certainly scary how much of our info is out there and bartered between companies (let's leave government agencies out of this). BTW, I'm sure I don't have to remind Wormie (can I call ya that?) or anyone that the purpose of Destination Disney was just that. To collect as much info on guests as possible ... ostensibly to tailor magical WDW vacations for them. But largely, so Disney would have a huge database on its guests. <<With the way that Disney seems to be organized (and how often they lose track of simple things like reservations for dinner), I'm not terribly concerned about this happening.>> They aren't organized. That's true. It's why I don't get information I am supposed to and why I often get stuff from them that I don't want. But just because they can't get their act together, doesn't change the fact they gather the info. I've gotten a few glimpses onto the screens when I've checked in for meals or at resorts ... and there are always notes there (some about things from meals years ago ... sometimes just telling the CM that I am a FLA resident and APer etc). But the possibility for Disney to misuse the info, and treat me in a less than magical way, surely exists. It's why I am hesitant to ever complain (or even compliment anyone), why I sometimes have CMs walk me when I have an AP (although they are tracking those entries with the 'scanners' too) etc. I still don't get why people can't see that Disney takes it a few steps beyond what other companies do. For instance, I can call Hilton or Marriott and get a rate quote and make a ressie in short order. But when I call Disney, I need to navigate a system where I am asked for everything from my last visit to the names of anyone who may be with me before I can get a rate quote. Disney doesn't need to know how many times I've visited, the date of my last visit and my home address to tell me if I can get a room this weekend at the Poly with an AP discount.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<***As for the wedding album and the sports stuff posted to this thread, I am still trying to find that connection.*** If you were a member of this community rather than a haughty and sarcastic troll, you might well realize the connection and importance of this..perhaps even enough to apologize for your insensitivity. Somehow I doubt it though.>> As someone who has been accused of running off newbies (and even being haughty and sarcastic too, imagine that?!), I don't think that's fair. I've seen trolls here. They aren't usually intelligent or articulate. They usually engage in name-calling and go off on regulars. I don't see that here. Hell, I think Wormie even complimented Trippy on the pics. His point was simply on them belonging here. The dude came here and raised a point and was immediately piled on largely for doing so -- and his OP has merit. At the very least it was a thought-provoking question.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<I think we've been duped.>> That's what Mrs. Pierce always tells me.
Originally Posted By MPierce >> I'm not sure whether the young man mentioned in Wormie's post will get an offer for Out Magazine (BTW, anyone see how Sarah Palin's daughter's baby-daddy, Levi Johnston, is gonna show his johnson for Playgirl? I know Pierce is on top of this story!) ... but it is certainly scary how much of our info is out there and bartered between companies (let's leave government agencies out of this). << He gives us Rednecks a bad name. >> For instance, I can call Hilton or Marriott and get a rate quote and make a ressie in short order. But when I call Disney, I need to navigate a system where I am asked for everything from my last visit to the names of anyone who may be with me before I can get a rate quote. Disney doesn't need to know how many times I've visited, the date of my last visit and my home address to tell me if I can get a room this weekend at the Poly with an AP discount. << All very true, and annoying, but Disney has a huge bank of products they need to push. They need to know if they've got a sucker on the line. It doesn't make it right, but there's no way around it. If the worm guy can tell us a way we could by pass the system, then I would feel more like this thread had accomplished something. I received a letter from my bank yesterday. They just wanted to remind me that I had an anniversary of my home coming up, and they had the date correct. They had an insurance policy that would cover all my appliances, and my heating, and cooling system, no matter how old they were, even if they were original to the house. With all the information that is out there on me, and available to so many people, I might as well give up on the thought of starting up that real estate pyramid scam I've been planning.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<He gives us Rednecks a bad name.>> Mrs. Pierce says you and Kitty are distraught that Playgirl didn't come to you with an offer first! >> For instance, I can call Hilton or Marriott and get a rate quote and make a ressie in short order. But when I call Disney, I need to navigate a system where I am asked for everything from my last visit to the names of anyone who may be with me before I can get a rate quote. Disney doesn't need to know how many times I've visited, the date of my last visit and my home address to tell me if I can get a room this weekend at the Poly with an AP discount. << <<All very true, and annoying, but Disney has a huge bank of products they need to push. They need to know if they've got a sucker on the line. It doesn't make it right, but there's no way around it. If the worm guy can tell us a way we could by pass the system, then I would feel more like this thread had accomplished something.>> I'd like to know that myself. I doubt it. Not in 2009. And as someone who's been a loyal Disney parks consumer for 35 years, I'd like to believe Disney would use that data to take better care of me and bring me truly special offers and deals. (yeah, this is where a sitcom laughtrack would come in handy!) <<I received a letter from my bank yesterday. They just wanted to remind me that I had an anniversary of my home coming up, and they had the date correct. They had an insurance policy that would cover all my appliances, and my heating, and cooling system, no matter how old they were, even if they were original to the house. With all the information that is out there on me, and available to so many people, I might as well give up on the thought of starting up that real estate pyramid scam I've been planning.>> I dunno ... part of me sez it's the availability to get all sorts of info so easily available (let's forget all the stuff people stupidly put out on social networking sites for the world to see) that there's a great market for scammers.
Originally Posted By danyoung >The dude came here and raised a point and was immediately piled on largely for doing so -- and his OP has merit.< I don't think his treatment was in any way unfair. He made allegations, he was asked to back them up, and he was unable to. His posts have lived up to the definition of "unfounded". True, things have gotten nastier as the thread has unfolded. And I've actually had a problem with the OP's attitude when answering these posts. He's just too danged calm, when he should be fighting back. I don't know what the agenda is, but having an interesting discussion doesn't seem to be a main one.
Originally Posted By magnet Hmmm, there's a bird & bird international law firm. I wonder who's the worm? But they wouldn't be interested in a mouse.
Originally Posted By birdsNworms There have been a few telling comments made to this thread of late. First, let me dismiss with the obvious red herring in the 'you're a troll fishbowl' scenario festering among some posters. I did not object to the poster who placed his daughter's wedding photos to this thread even though many would say -- including the individual who posted them -- that they did not/do not belong here. Instead, I realized this man wanted to get as many LP regulars as possible to view the pictures he was rightfully proud of and this thread was receiving a high number of hits. Plain and simple. That was just good product placement, and I, to the contrary of calling him out, congratulated him. Now, whether or not he knows birdsNworms is irrelevant. In the real world, if someone congratulated you on your daughter's wedding, I do believe a thank you would be the only response deemed appropriate. Yet, there was silence followed by quizzically hostile postings by this same person. Frankly, tossing such stuff in someone else's thread, regardless of the 'I know I'm hijacking this but...' commentary could be seen itself as troll-like behavior by some. But, again, my congratulations (see post #123) to the man and his now-larger family. To the more important issue of credibility, I have learned that it is best not to comment than to argue every point articulated no matter how off-topic or nonsensical it is. The idea that the OP is not 'worked up enough' runs counter to an adult exchange of information and ideas and implies this is a forum for something else. The folks on Flower Street and in Burbank take those who stick to the topic, add to the back-and-forth, and pull in intelligent dialogue seriously. As do I. The rest are simply reinforcing what TWDC already knows. That makes them and their comments irrelevant -- not to me or to this community. To TWDC. And while some would argue this is merely a fan group, I know many in this community to be far too intelligent than such naivete would indicate. The two posters who introduced personal experiences were given responses. Including a highly personal one that many may not see as being connected on the surface. That is their choice. To not look deeper, that is. By the audience that has largely participated in this thread, TWDC is at once just another big corporate colossus out for the buck and at the same time somehow above the Wal-Marts of the world. Let me advance this notion, TWDC's efforts to 'understand the consumer' are no less sinister than the disciples of Sam Walton. Most who have been on the inside, some who are part of this community, would say Disney is often the big, bad wolf and the consumer...you know his/her/their role.
Originally Posted By birdsNworms There are several regulars here who seem to believe that only by responding to them, to their every comment, does this thread -- or any thread -- deserve to have a home at LP.com. One fellow, who I believe has posted more than [a staggering] 200 times a month on average, sometimes conducts himself in a by-the-book definition of what a troll is. This man, who implies having a base in Asia, a part of the world I have a significant base in, presents himself as that eleven year old in the back of the class that does everything from tossing paper airplanes at his classmates to putting boogers in the hair of the girl in front of him to...well, even farting a Disney showtune to get some attention. I made an effort to elevate the conversation and interjected a topic that most people out here, in the Industry and among Disney enthusiasts, think is quite intriguing. Although, as at least one poster has stated, no matter how much information I put out there -- no matter how specific that information might be -- many on this site would dismiss it just to be on the other side. And, no, not necessarily that of TWDC. As many of you know, former imagineers have attempted to interject or stimulate a dialogue here under 'adopted' names. Funny thing, while only a few fans know it, these incredibly talented personalities were splayed by the very fans of their product(s). Almost as though the idea is not to develop a topic, but to diminish it by any means unless you are the OP. And usually that means some pretty nasty attacks on the OP. I find it troubling, and telling, that under this "duped" umbrella there is no audible sound of 'yeah, I was at WDW and...' just screams about trolls, questions about motive, and paper airplanes. You may well have heard this story as it is hardly original. But I am going to repeat it in this environment only because it was an imagineer who invoked it in response to his own gutting on these boards. "If you go into a lecture hall full of folks who believe the world is flat, it is best not to bring a globe and step to the podium. Rather, take a seat in the back and stare at the map on the wall." And, yeah, that is exactly what so many 'cast' in Burbank do and what Flower Street did before the purge (as TWDC collapses WDI in favor of outsourcing to boutique firms, comprised largely of former imagineers, and taking Six Flags product with some frosting for the diehard fans). Unlike so many other fan sites, LP.com is committed to being a deep resource for those who have an interest in all facets of TWDC. It is because of that we follow the many comments posted on the site. If you do not welcome intelligent, and sometimes divergent, views, you only end up hurting LP and eroding the credibility many of you all have given it over the years. The intentional devolving of this thread, with maybe a handful of posters staying on-topic, is not what this site is about. Unless, that is, the idea is to drive everyone to the official Disney blog. After all, there's nothing wrong with only seeing your own view of things, right Mr. Iger? And, we all know, TWDC is just providing "good customer service" with all of that data, isn't it?
Originally Posted By birdsNworms Let me dream for a moment. A Disney dream, of sorts. Let me dream that some former cast members with intimate knowledge of TWDC's data mining and its direct correlation to post #1 and some cyber-cred at LP will decide this silence is saying so, so much. Come to think of it, early in this thread a cast member actually did that. Spoke up, and spoke out. Then, the same poster came back to suggest 'killing' the thread. Okay, not simply killing it, I think the record shows this person declared this a "non-thread". Of course, I might just be waking from my slumber, but shouldn't that have come before the vindication of the OP? I mean, from a credibility standpoint and all...
Originally Posted By Mr X ***One fellow, who I believe has posted more than [a staggering] 200 times a month on average*** Wow. What do I win? ***This man, who implies having a base in Asia, a part of the world I have a significant base in*** See, now this is the lame kind of crap that makes people wonder about "the new guy". I don't "imply" having a base in Asia (a base? what does that even mean? and how is it that you have "a significant base" here? like, business or something? or friends in Asia? I don't understand.), I live in Tokyo. Everyone on LP knows that. LP members have visited me here, I've even had a few over to one of my homes. So what's with the hostile vibe there birds? I think you're really coming off like a weirdo jerk here with your attitude, though I think you'll find that if you lighten up a little this is a fun place to get to know people and have, you know, *actual* conversations.
