Originally Posted By fkurucz >>Hey DVC Dad...not only the WalMart crowd stay at the All Star resorts.<< Absolutely. Some people just don't see the value of staying at a Deluxe Resort. We would rather stay somewhere more modest and use the savings to finance a 2nd vacation. Some people like to poo-poo the Value resorts, but for us they do the trick. We found the Pop Century to be more than adequate. And since the rooms are affordable, we can get two rooms (which means two bathrooms). That is more valuable to us than a gorgeous lobby.
Originally Posted By ChiMike >>No kidding. We're low 6 figures and there is no way we would (or could) spend that kind of money.<< And I can understand that. Completely. I didn't want to buy in right away because it just seemed silly to spend that chunk of change on a theme park hotel room. But with the committment to use it fully or sell it for a break-even minimum, it's not a bad decision. Whenever someone tells me that it is so much money I always talk about how much 7 days in Hawaii will cost you. Or 10 days in the Italian Riviera. A well-located hotel room for once a week for 45 years at Walt Disney World for close to the same cost is a very good deal.
Originally Posted By ChiMike >>Absolutely. Some people just don't see the value of staying at a Deluxe Resort. We would rather stay somewhere more modest and use the savings to finance a 2nd vacation. Some people like to poo-poo the Value resorts, but for us they do the trick. We found the Pop Century to be more than adequate. And since the rooms are affordable, we can get two rooms (which means two bathrooms). That is more valuable to us than a gorgeous lobby.<< And I commend that as well. (Not that I have been involved in this point on the thread, because I would never say such a thing). I mentioned a few months ago that a former boss who had a lot of $$$$$ refused to spend anything more than a standard room at the Coronado. Just couldn't see the value. I wish I didn't have the emotional connection that I do with the seven seas lagoon. It's cost me more money than I would like to think about. Nothing wrong with being frugal, nothing at all. And, don't get me wrong, I think the rack rates at the GF are way out of control. It's obvious that it is an artificial price that they can discount from.
Originally Posted By DVC_dad <<<As someone who stays at a DVC resort from time to time, I much prefer the addons. The place I have a problem with is Saratoga Springs. I think one could be just as critical over it's massive scale, blandness, and it's overall effect on the DVC program.>>> As an owner at Saratgoa, I could not agree MORE.
Originally Posted By FenwayGirl Thanks fkurucz...I too would much rather save the extra thousand or so dollars to either fund another vacation or have the extra money to let the kiddie (big and small) enjoy! We are not in our rooms or at the resorts enough to really enjoy them. Our kids only want to be in the parks. One day (when the kids are grown) and I get to vacation in WDW without kids I would love to stay at a deluxe (we have in the past...before kids) and enjoy the spas etc. But that does not make us the "Walmart crowd" I find that term very offensive!
Originally Posted By DVC_dad FenwayGirl wrote: <<<Hey DVC Dad...not only the WalMart crowd stay at the All Star resorts. Just because some of us are less fortunate does not make us less desirable than the well to do.>>> You are right, and I am sorry to have said anything that was not appropriate. I will say this: I have stayed at All Star myself. Once. That was enough. I don't think I saw you there on that trip. My son was attacked by some boy (and I can say this being born and raised in Dixie and living in here for the duration of my trip on this Spaceship earth) who was a crazed nasty red-neck child from somewhere in the deep south. My son did nothing to instigate this. Upon looking to that other boy's father for help, I was cussed literally out by the drunken White Trash Fellow who I do honesatly think, wanted to actually get me into a fist fight with him. This would not have been a good thing, as he was 3 sheets to the wind, but I contemplated just pushing him into the pool. I gathered up my family and moved to the only room I could get...one bed room villa - rack rate at Old Key West. We unpacked our stuff and stayed in the night. The next morning we went out to the bus stop...suddenly I am looking around myself. What is this? Curious...but no more wife beater shirts and stench of cigarette smoke. I see Polo's and plaid shorts, little girls with bows in their hair. Women in hats with flowers on them and men in burmuda shorts and golf shirts. Where the heck am I? Did I trasfer into some other deminsion? We came back, went to the pool. I hear things like "yes ma'am, and no ma'am", and granted...some screaming brats too, but no one is attacking my son. And thus began my love affair with the DVC. Its not about the people, or the Walmart, or anything like that. I don't look down on anyone for what their station in life is. But having grown up as a child who wasn't even able to afford to GO TO Disneyland or Walt Disney World, much less stay somewhere other than Ramada Inn, much much less to stay on Disney Property... We all understand the Big Picture of things. You TYPICALLY get what you pay for, and you MORE OFTEN THAN NOT do not get what you do not pay for. No offense meant to anyone.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 There are few guarantees in life, but one thing is assured from now til the end of life on earth ... when the Spirit blows into a DVC thread, the post-count is gonna so sky-high. I think Doobie needs to write me a check, although I also take Visa AND American Express!
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 Meant to type SOAR sky high! As to some points: I don't want to debate whether or not DVC is a value because that truly differs based upon the individual. As long as I keep going to WDW and getting 25-50% discounts on moderate and deluxe accomodations, DVC doesn't come close to being a deal for me in the least. White trash (or any other hued trash) stays at every WDW resort and isn't based upon income level and/or education and/or DVC membership. Adding DVC units to both the Beach Club and WL has had an adverse affect on my experiences at both resorts. And the clientele has gone down in my experiences. Is it cause and effect? I don't know. I do know that the level of service, upkeep, CMs have all fallen at those two resorts since DVC was added. The pools, restauarants, public areas all appear much more crowded. Neither resort was designed with the idea of adding DVC, so clearly there is overcrowding issues, which lowers the 'deluxe' resort feeling. Finally, I see a day when EVERY WDW resort except the values will have a DVC component. That will be a very sad day to me. And, P.S., I don't understand the Saratoga bashing ...I tried it, I liked it. It actually has a more upscale feeling than it looks. AND it is a stand-alone resort, which is what I believe DVC should be. But that's not what Disney execs feel! Now, you can all continue ...can we get this thread over 1,000?
Originally Posted By eortiz01757 Thanks for your post DVD Dad...I read this site daily and have always enjoyed your posts. I was disappointed at your earlier remarks. I am sorry that your child had a bad experience at the All Stars..but that could have happened anywhere. People seem to be getting ruder and ruder by the day.And yes, the clientle is very different at All Stars vs DVC ( I have experienced both, but I also realize that no everyone can afford DVC, Deluxe or even Moderates..)That does no make them bad people. My Dad always told me to "walk a mile in the other man's shoes". I also can relate the not being able to go to Disney as s child. I did not go to WDW until I was 26 (quite a few years ago I might add) and fell in love with the place instantly. Ever since that day I have wanted to share WDW with my children and now my 4 grandchildren.. Sorry for the rambling, but once again thanks for the post...
Originally Posted By FenwayGirl oops...old account ( my daughters) The above post was from FenwayGirl
Originally Posted By ChiMike >> do know that the level of service, upkeep, CMs have all fallen at those two resorts since DVC was added. The pools, restauarants, public areas all appear much more crowded. Neither resort was designed with the idea of adding DVC, so clearly there is overcrowding issues, which lowers the 'deluxe' resort feeling.<< I couldn't agree more. And I tried to outline the difference in what kind of recourse a normal cash paying guest has vs. a member. >>Finally, I see a day when EVERY WDW resort except the values will have a DVC component. That will be a very sad day to me.<< I do too, sans YC. I can't see any new Deluxe resort being built in the future w/o a DVC contingent. And I agree with your POV on the after effects of VWL & BCV. I just prefer staying there over OKW or SS. (I have only toured SS). Which is too bad because I believe OKW and SS to be in better shape and have better furnishings. I just can't get over the location issue while I'm at WDW. A personal preference.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 I really was surprised by how much I enjoyed SS ... heck, I even added an extra night. Location doesn't mean much to me anymore since WDW transport has become almost all busses. So knowing my way around, I can drive anywhere on property in 10-15 minutes. But I would stay at SS again without hesitation provided I get an AP discount. I still don't understand the investment argument people use to justify DVC. When my cousin bought in, I took her to look at new homes in the Four Corners area. She could have bought a new home (3 bedroom, 2 1/2 bath, 2 car garage, pool and screened in patio) for $115,000. She could have used it a 4-6 weeks a year and rented to tourists (mostly Brits) the rest of the time, but opted to put $30,000 into DVC instead. I admit, I just don't understand that 'logic.'
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 ^^Oops, missed the most IMPORTANT point. The house would be paid off by now just by renters. That same house we looked at is now selling for $378,000. Yes. That DVC 'investment' sure looks great to me.
Originally Posted By ChiMike >>I still don't understand the investment argument people use to justify DVC. When my cousin bought in, I took her to look at new homes in the Four Corners area. She could have bought a new home (3 bedroom, 2 1/2 bath, 2 car garage, pool and screened in patio) for $115,000. She could have used it a 4-6 weeks a year and rented to tourists (mostly Brits) the rest of the time, but opted to put $30,000 into DVC instead. I admit, I just don't understand that 'logic.'<< I couldn't have said it any better. I didn't make an either or choice b/c we have had our second home for a long time and it was one of the reasons we didn't buy DVC right away. DVC made sense on paper so we eventually bought in for access to the EPCOT resorts, but though practice, like Leemac, I'm at a point were I might take advantage of the absurdly high prices on the resale market. SS has just made the bookings rediculous, worse than the ADR situation. When I bought in there was no SS, I almost feel like it's bait & switch. Worst off I would be at OKW. But back to your point, I remember when even in 2004, let alone the last 7 years when the investment/rental market in Kissimmie was rockin' and I couldn't understand why more people weren't doing the REAL math and getting a second home and making money on a rental. There are more people outside of Florida who do this one would think. It really is the best financial move. But again, preference comes into it, like mine, and some want to be on property. As I said on the other thread, between my desire to stay at 7seas, my second home in SW Florida, and DVC, I am fully saturated. DVC would be the first thing I would and probably will give up. But if the parameters work for someone, if in June they know they want to be in Orlando in May, well then you can't beat $80 v. $350. And around back to your point, you can't beat REAL equity with a cash flow & free lodging v. """"ownership interest"""" for $80/night.
Originally Posted By DVC_dad <<< White trash (or any other hued trash) stays at every WDW resort and isn't based upon income level and/or education and/or DVC membership. >>> yes this is true, but as you will find more Romans in Rome, you will find more... Doobie really should pay you Spirit lol!
Originally Posted By fkurucz >>But that does not make us the "Walmart crowd" I find that term very offensive!<< FWIW, I really doubt that WalMart's target demographic (families with below average incomes) can really afford a WDW vacation. That said, there are plenty of trashy people who have $$$$ and who can afford an on property WDW vacation.
Originally Posted By ChiMike ^ And that is what I remember arguing back in the summer of 2004 with you and the usual cast of characters. That while a good deal, DVC is not a savvy financial move. It's constructed for those who DO have preferences. Not all members, but a good portion that Disney cashes in on are those who can't see past Disney's borders or value Disney soap over an appreciating investment that offers cash flow.
Originally Posted By DVC_dad eortiz01757 wrote: <<<...I read this site daily and have always enjoyed your posts. I was disappointed at your earlier remarks. >>> Sorry to let you down, but it was bound to happen eventually. I think most of the underlying bitterness...which is really what you are hearing come from between the lines eortiz01757, is basically something I deal with and get tired of. I think...not sure, but THINK, that my attack on All Star is really me trying to avoid feeling like I have to apologize for being successful AND being a DVC member. eortiz01757, I need to rewind, back up, think about it, and let it rest. You are right. There are many wonderful people who book at All Star all the time. There is afterall a fantastic value in doing so no doubt about it. And for the record eortiz01757, your reply was extremely diplomatic and you really hit the nail on the head. I get it and I totally agree on all points. Thanks for being gracious. The problem is in me, not at the All Star, but I am working on it.
