Originally Posted By DVC_dad <<<^^Oops, missed the most IMPORTANT point. The house would be paid off by now just by renters. That same house we looked at is now selling for $378,000. Yes. That DVC 'investment' sure looks great to me.>>> And yet you've done neither.
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo Ah yes, but buying a property in Fla requires higher upfront capital outlay, repairs caused by hurricane damage, and you are stuck with Florida. DVC allows a smaller up front investment, and you can use the points around the world, including for cruises. It depends on what you want for the better deal. And sadly, in the UK, there are no tax deductables on property. In fact you pay twice as much tax for owning 2 properties and claiming rent. DVC is exempt.
Originally Posted By ChiMike >>FWIW, I really doubt that WalMart's target demographic (families with below average incomes) can really afford a WDW vacation.<< I haven't yet jumped into the whole Walmart angle, and I'm not doing so now, but let me say, I don't see a Sep. package for a family of 4 at $200 /night at a value resort that includes admission and 2 meals w/ a snack per day as out of many peoples' price range. It's pretty hard to find vacations cheaper then that. Walmart doesn't just cater to those on food stamps. $200/night all inclusive for 2a/2c is right on target with the kind of money blown at Walmart daily.
Originally Posted By DVC_dad good point^^^ I didn't do it as a financial move. I did it for convenience and to share with extended family and friends. Bottob line... It was the right decision for me. As we established in the Monorail thread, some decisions are larger than counting beans.
Originally Posted By ChiMike >>Ah yes, but buying a property in Fla requires higher upfront capital outlay,<< Not really, for a lot less then 200 points at DVC you could put a down payment on a 30 year fixed investment class mortgage. The rental should cover your P+I+T+I payments with some cash left over. Plus your property appreciates instead of depreciates towards expiration. >>repairs caused by hurricane damage,<< That's what supplemental insurance is for. You don't think Disney is carrying souped up coverage and passing it on via maintenance fees? I would agree that it's less of a hit spread out among DVC members, but that's the trade-off for the flexibility and advantage of controlling your own rental. >>and you are stuck with Florida.<< Sure, but isn't the arguement from some that DVC is best when used in Orlando? That then it is when it is financially advantageous? You're right though, I wouldn't buy anything in Florida if I wanted to travel to multiple destinations. I will tell you that that is what my plan will probably be. Get out of my current DVC at the resale price and when the time comes, buy the longer contract with DL as my home resort. I tend to book my California trips farther out. >>DVC allows a smaller up front investment,<< As I said earlier, that really isn't true. In 2003 and 2004 there were mortgage products for investment property that brought over the 80/15/5 from primary residence mortgages. That was amazing and crazy and probably hurt the housing market, but it was available to people. >> and you can use the points around the world, including for cruises.<< Again, in practice, not many people do that. Not if they are trying to maximize their DVC "investment" >> It depends on what you want for the better deal.<< Agreed. >>And sadly, in the UK, there are no tax deductables on property. In fact you pay twice as much tax for owning 2 properties and claiming rent. DVC is exempt.<< Now see that is completely different. In that case I would agree with you 100%. But, in most cases people aren't confronted with that prediciment.
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo But I do occassionally consider buying a 2nd property in the US. That way I can have a place back home too! Sadly, we don't have the capital yet. One day maybe.
Originally Posted By ChiMike And to go back to the original topic, I don't care how many points someone has, with SS completely built out, you better have AKL points or good luck trying to snag a continuous reservation for AKL. I know I would stay there before any other DVC resort and I haven't even seen it.
Originally Posted By FenwayGirl Great reply DVC Dad. Do't you EVER feel that you need to apologize for being successful..or for owning DVC. All of your posts reflect that you are a good, kind, decent human being who is among other things a great family man. Lots of us would love to be in your position, but I believe in making the best of what you have. I would love to own DVC and plan to look into it on my next trip.. Just keep on writing all of your great posts about your trips with all of your kiddies. They are the best.
Originally Posted By DVC_dad O.O realllly? I thought that this time I had finally gone off the deep end.
Originally Posted By DVC_dad Note to self: Give FenwayGirl a few nigts stay at the Boardwalk, free, the next time she goes down.
Originally Posted By RoadTrip <<The next morning we went out to the bus stop...suddenly I am looking around myself. What is this? Curious...but no more wife beater shirts and stench of cigarette smoke. I see Polo's and plaid shorts, little girls with bows in their hair. Women in hats with flowers on them and men in burmuda shorts and golf shirts. Where the heck am I? Did I trasfer into some other deminsion? >> Old Key West is without a doubt the most totally pleasant WDW Resort I've ever stayed at. I think much of that comes from it being an all DVC resort... not combined with a nightly rental hotel. I'm not saying DVC'ers are better than anyone else. I've stayed at the All Stars several times and always enjoyed them. But there is the feeling of pride of ownership at OKW that you just don't find anywhere else.
Originally Posted By basas <<FWIW, I really doubt that WalMart's target demographic (families with below average incomes) can really afford a WDW vacation.>> I really don't see how you see their target audience as 'families with below average incomes'. I know in our area (which is, overall, pretty wealthy) everyone shops at Wal-Mart.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<And that is what I remember arguing back in the summer of 2004 with you and the usual cast of characters. That while a good deal, DVC is not a savvy financial move. It's constructed for those who DO have preferences. Not all members, but a good portion that Disney cashes in on are those who can't see past Disney's borders or value Disney soap over an appreciating investment that offers cash flow.>> Yes. That's it in the proverbial nutshell. You can say you love DVC. You can say DVC is a good value for you and your family. You can say how much you value your Mickey Ivory soap ... or your wakeup call from Stitch ... or being a priso..I mean the convenient Disney bus transport ... or the on property benefits like EMHs ... just don't tell me that it's a great investment. Not when you can OWN actual property vs. prepaid vacation points where you still have to fight other members (and people they sell their points to) in order to book when/where you choose.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<<^^Oops, missed the most IMPORTANT point. The house would be paid off by now just by renters. That same house we looked at is now selling for $378,000. Yes. That DVC 'investment' sure looks great to me.>>> <<And yet you've done neither.>> Where I choose to invest my money is my business. But you're right. And I'm kicking myself now that I didn't buy a couple of homes in the WDW vicinity in the 1990s as investments/vacation homes. I'm not kicking myself that I didn't buy DVC, even in those first few years when I can see it as a very good deal (also included tix back then).
Originally Posted By RoadTrip There is no way on EARTH that I would ever buy real estate in Orlando. I have absolutely no desire to be a landlord, and you certainly don't want to let your property sit vacant 50 weeks per year. We have good friends who own a Condo at a ski/recreation area that they rent for most of the year. They HATE it. They've learned to put the absolute cheapest furnishings in it that they can find, because whatever they put in will be trashed in a couple of years. They can't even really enjoy their time there because they have to keep the place so stripped for using it as a rental.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<Ah yes, but buying a property in Fla requires higher upfront capital outlay, repairs caused by hurricane damage, and you are stuck with Florida.>> Not all that much more, and less in the past before real estate really took off in the O-Town environs. I don't know the percentage, but my guess is well over 90% of all DVCers are buying in at a level much higher than the minimum (which is what? $15,000 now?) As for hurricane damage, Orlando has had one hurricane in my lifetime that was a direct hit by a severe storm. That was Charlie in 2004. Every place I can think of in the USA has weather issues that can potentially damage property. I think inland Central Florida has far less concerns than most parts of the country. Even in my part of SE Fla, we've only had one bad storm ... that was Wilma a year ago. <<DVC allows a smaller up front investment, and you can use the points around the world, including for cruises. It depends on what you want for the better deal.>> True. But I'm willing to bet that a very large percentage of DVCers use their points for WDW and that's it. Not even DCL ... or Vero Beach or Hilton Head (both of which are wonderful resorts). Most DVCers buy into it as a prepaid WDW vacation plan. That's why I get a kick out of seeing those commercials on WDW Resort TV where a family is sking in the Rockies and another is on a ranch etc ... people don't buy into DVC for that. They just don't. <<And sadly, in the UK, there are no tax deductables on property. In fact you pay twice as much tax for owning 2 properties and claiming rent. DVC is exempt.>> Different story, though.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<Walmart doesn't just cater to those on food stamps.>> No, they don't. Even with the amount of poor folks, they'd go out of business that way. They cater to everyone that wants to save a buck. That's why there's one located just outside the gates of a huge, upscale community near me (where homes start around $600,000 and go up to many millions). But this isn't a WalMart debate. Although you may have heard I think they're evil!
