Originally Posted By RoadTrip <<That's why I get a kick out of seeing those commercials on WDW Resort TV where a family is sking in the Rockies and another is on a ranch etc ... people don't buy into DVC for that. They just don't.>> I've used points twice for the Disneyland Hotel, the Yacht Club, twice at the Wilderness Cabins and twice at Big Cedar Lodge in Ridgeway, Missouri (near Branson). If I totaled it all up, I've probably used as many points outside of DVC as I have for DVC resorts.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<There is no way on EARTH that I would ever buy real estate in Orlando. >> And I doubt I would ever buy property in Minnesota. But if I had the choice of buying property there or 'owning' a timeshare, I'd take the property. <<I have absolutely no desire to be a landlord, and you certainly don't want to let your property sit vacant 50 weeks per year.>> Fair enough. Some folks wouldn't want the responsibility. That's cool. I wouldn't mind it, especially since it would generate another income and I'd actually own something that would appreciate in value. And, obviously, I wouldn't tell anyone to buy a vacation home and let it sit empty most of the year. <<We have good friends who own a Condo at a ski/recreation area that they rent for most of the year. They HATE it. They've learned to put the absolute cheapest furnishings in it that they can find, because whatever they put in will be trashed in a couple of years. They can't even really enjoy their time there because they have to keep the place so stripped for using it as a rental. >> And that's why you screen guests and why you get a sizable cash or credit deposit to cover any damage to the property. I doubt that so many homes would be rented in Florida if everyone trashed them.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<I've used points twice for the Disneyland Hotel, the Yacht Club, twice at the Wilderness Cabins and twice at Big Cedar Lodge in Ridgeway, Missouri (near Branson).>> And two of those are WDW resorts. One is a Disneyland hotel. And one is an actual non-Disney locale. But I would think you'd even have to admit that most DVCers don't use their points like you. Most are like my cousin. Two weeks at OKW in summer in a one bedroom. One week in the fall at an OKW studio and a Vero Inn room. Every year for over a decade. ONCE she sprang for a Disney cruise, but said it would have been better to just pay with a Fla resident deal and ONCE she went to NYC and stayed at the Plaza Hotel for a long weekend. But basically, it's the same thing every year. And, FWIW, from what she tells me anecdotally, most of the 'owners' she knows do the same. <<If I totaled it all up, I've probably used as many points outside of DVC as I have for DVC resorts.>> Again, a Disney resort is a Disney resort. DVC or not. And I doubt that most DVCers ever use points for DL ... let alone DLP ... or the recently added TDL resort. But, as I've always suspected, you are special Tripster
Originally Posted By RoadTrip <<And that's why you screen guests and why you get a sizable cash or credit deposit to cover any damage to the property. I doubt that so many homes would be rented in Florida if everyone trashed them.>> My brother-in-law manages a very upscale 'managed property' resort in one of the highest quality resort areas in Minnesota. The units are owned by individuals but rented out most of the year when the owner's aren't there with the Grand View Lodge Company managing the property. The units at the resort range from about $300 per day up to $1,000 per day. They still have major problems with the units being trashed. I don't care how much money you charge per night or what kind of references you get. One wild night fueled by excess alcohol consumption can totally trash a place. Sure, you have a credit card deposit. And the card holder can dispute the charges. Usually to get the thing settled at all they have to accept about 50% of the actual damages.
Originally Posted By RoadTrip ^^^ And yes... do they charge high enough rental to cover this type of thing? Yes they do. If you can emotionally divorce yourself from the property and look at it from a strictly business standpoint it would probably work. But I couldn't. A part of me would die inside every time I saw the place I loved so much trashed so badly.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 Oh Trippy, how I used to miss our never-ending debates. Is there anything we agree on? Other than both liking DCA? And do you think we can keep this thread trucking for another 1,000 posts?
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 If I 'win' the DVC membership, do you think I could tell the Dream Squad that my dream would be to own at DAK Lodge, not SS?
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<A part of me would die inside every time I saw the place I loved so much trashed so badly.>> Trippy, this is how I often feel at WDW.
Originally Posted By RoadTrip We agree on the important stuff Spirit. We both have a great love for the Disney Parks. We both appreciate the theming of WDW resorts. You really never find resorts that heavily themed outside of Vegas. I was somewhat surprised that you recognized that theming can help offset the various deficiencies of Disney Resorts. In fact you were probably more positive about it than I would be. I love Disney resorts, but I've stayed at MANY places that were a lot nicer according to usual hotel standards. We each feel strongly about the DVC'ing of WDW. Sure, we are kind of on opposite sides of the fence (for now) but that is better than not caring. I still think you may come over to the dark side. I agree that Saratoga Springs is a very nice addition to DVC. Just as I really love OKW, I think that DVC is at its best when it does a stand-alone resort. One of these days you'll be posting how you bought 200 points at SS.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<We agree on the important stuff Spirit. We both have a great love for the Disney Parks.>> That we do. That we most certainly do. <<We both appreciate the theming of WDW resorts. You really never find resorts that heavily themed outside of Vegas. >> Yep. Vegas, another of my travel loves. The Spirit has haunted just about every resort on the Strip ... and is getting that 'it's time to go back' feeling. <<I was somewhat surprised that you recognized that theming can help offset the various deficiencies of Disney Resorts. In fact you were probably more positive about it than I would be. I love Disney resorts, but I've stayed at MANY places that were a lot nicer according to usual hotel standards.>> Really? Shouldn't surprise you. I really think the key to Disney is theming ... because theming is telling a story ... it's transporting you to another time or place. Like I said, on the basics (things as simple at soap or TVs or alarm clocks) Disney cheaps out. But some of that can be overlooked to an extent by the resort itself. I can recall my first stay at CBR back in 1989 ... when it was brand new ... and advertised as a value property. I can recall my first stay at the ASSports in 1995. I LOVED both of them simply because they immersed you in different worlds. Yeah, Sports was tacky, but it was so over-the-top -- and still full of Disney quality, that I could overlook the deficiencies and see all the good. Make sense? <<We each feel strongly about the DVC'ing of WDW. Sure, we are kind of on opposite sides of the fence (for now) but that is better than not caring.>> True enough. But please don't misunderstand me. I think DVC is a good business for the company. I just think there needs to be growth outside Orlando. Enough is never enough with Disney. Sure they're finally on the cusp of announcing a resort at DL ... years after they sold that amazing Newport Beach property to Marriott, which built a resort of its own that puts anything by Disney to shame. But it would be nice to see Disney build in places like NYC and Colorado ... places it was going to until Eisner got gunshy. It would be nice to see one at DLP too. Instead of walking thru Disney Village there and being bombarded by Marriott Vacation Club reps touting their resort, which happens to overlook the DLP Golf Club. Make sense to you? <<I still think you may come over to the dark side. I agree that Saratoga Springs is a very nice addition to DVC. Just as I really love OKW, I think that DVC is at its best when it does a stand-alone resort. One of these days you'll be posting how you bought 200 points at SS. >> Now I know the cold has frozen your brain.
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo "<<DVC allows a smaller up front investment, and you can use the points around the world, including for cruises. It depends on what you want for the better deal.>> True. But I'm willing to bet that a very large percentage of DVCers use their points for WDW and that's it. Not even DCL ... or Vero Beach or Hilton Head (both of which are wonderful resorts). Most DVCers buy into it as a prepaid WDW vacation plan. That's why I get a kick out of seeing those commercials on WDW Resort TV where a family is sking in the Rockies and another is on a ranch etc ... people don't buy into DVC for that. They just don't." See, we are considering it as we go to WDW every 3 - 5 years, but can use our points at DLP, TDL, HKDL, DL and the cruises. While we don't regularly go to WDW, we do try to squeeze in at least 5 days of a Disney vacation a year, and have virtually all my life, so it seems like a no brainer. Now if I can just convince my wife!
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo >>>True enough. But please don't misunderstand me. I think DVC is a good business for the company. I just think there needs to be growth outside Orlando. Enough is never enough with Disney.<<< Oh god yes! Imagine DVC Grand Canyon Resort, DVC Big Sur, DVC Take Tahoe, DVC Vegas (if only) DVC New York, DVC Cape Cod, DVC Windsor, DVC Barcelona. Combining world class locations with Disney theming and fun, it would be awesome!
Originally Posted By ChiMike >>If I 'win' the DVC membership, do you think I could tell the Dream Squad that my dream would be to own at DAK Lodge, not SS?<< >chuckle< Yeah, I'm sure that will go over REAL well. Disney knows what's best for your dreams, Spirit
Originally Posted By vbdad55 < I understand DVC members think they are many things but they aren't choosing to and/or capabale of having the buying power to get a room at GF's Tower for $585 a night in Februrary. If they choose to or where capable they wouldn't be DVC members. < I say baloney, I can stay wherever I please if that is what I choose. I like OKW for what it is, and I travel enough to stay at the highest levels when I want to, but is that available at WDW ? No - there are no 5 diamond / star resorts there, so I appreciate OKW for what it is. My kids love it and the roominess makes it very homey. When I travel to WDW I am not looking to spend time sitting in a $600 night hotel room after spending 12 hours walking the parks. I am looking for home style comfort which I get at OKW as well as Vero Beach. So to say we cannot afford to, nor do we necessarily want to is bunk....but 1/ the choice of world class accomodations is not available 2/ why would you want that at WDW ? We are booked on the QM 2 next year to go to Ireland for our 30th wedding anniversary. Since I will be spending much time aboard ship, yes I want the best of everything, so that is what we booked. But when i fly I do not fly 1st class, why do that for a few hours ? Same goes for me at WDW, the hotel experience is not why I am there.
Originally Posted By vbdad55 <Whenever someone tells me that it is so much money I always talk about how much 7 days in Hawaii will cost you. Or 10 days in the Italian Riviera. A well-located hotel room for once a week for 45 years at Walt Disney World for close to the same cost is a very good deal.< If you are spending $30K on one trip to Hawaii or Italy, I want to travel with you. We spent 10 days in Germany, Switzerland and Austria 3 years ago including a 3 day Rhein Cruise and could do it three more times easily for that kind of money...even with a crappy $ exchange.
Originally Posted By vbdad55 <And, P.S., I don't understand the Saratoga bashing ...I tried it, I liked it. It actually has a more upscale feeling than it looks.< I agree that the furnishings especially are very high quality for any level of time share...
Originally Posted By vbdad55 <Old Key West is without a doubt the most totally pleasant WDW Resort I've ever stayed at. I think much of that comes from it being an all DVC resort... not combined with a nightly rental hotel. I'm not saying DVC'ers are better than anyone else. I've stayed at the All Stars several times and always enjoyed them. But there is the feeling of pride of ownership at OKW that you just don't find anywhere else. < couldn't agree more, as I have met some of the nicest people in my 12 years there
Originally Posted By fkurucz >>I haven't yet jumped into the whole Walmart angle, and I'm not doing so now, but let me say, I don't see a Sep. package for a family of 4 at $200 /night at a value resort that includes admission and 2 meals w/ a snack per day as out of many peoples' price range. << I would say that for a family of 4 of a 40K annual income (WalMart's target demographic), it would be out of their range. Most people that I know in that demographic go camping on their vacations.
Originally Posted By fkurucz >>I really don't see how you see their target audience as 'families with below average incomes'<< WalMart has historically targetted the working poor. As of late they have set their sights higher up the income food chain, niy IMHO Target does a much better job targetting that demographic (nicer mechandise for one thing).
Originally Posted By ChiMike >> I say baloney, I can stay wherever I please if that is what I choose. I like OKW for what it is, and I travel enough to stay at the highest levels when I want to, but is that available at WDW ? No - there are no 5 diamond / star resorts there, so I appreciate OKW for what it is. My kids love it and the roominess makes it very homey. When I travel to WDW I am not looking to spend time sitting in a $600 night hotel room after spending 12 hours walking the parks. I am looking for home style comfort which I get at OKW as well as Vero Beach.<< And that's fine. But not everyone is you. Not everyone is me. This goes back to the same FP arguement. Not everyone lives in downtown Chicago, not everyone got in while the getting was good in Naperville. Most DVC members could not afford to stay at the GF prior to their DVC purchase. Most DVC members who could've afforded to stay at the GF prior to their DVC purchase still didn't because they couldn't find the value. That point isn't nonsense for the majority of the cases. So please, like the FP debate, don't think my prose is directed at VBDad, citizen of Naperville, IL. It's not. I would rather stay at OKW any day over GF. And that goes against my whole location preference (with GF on the monorail). My point was to illustrate that it is not a black & white situation. That DVC members have a larger income than non-members. I didn't originally suggest one way or the other. I simply tried to offer reasoning that disproved it. You're in a pretty unique situation so I try to not to use your examples or your history as a barometer for common Disney guest practices. Nor am I under any illusion that I am a perfect sample. I do however try to look at the big picture and macro effects on an average guest. I try not to base my personal opinion on what I think is good for the guest or what is a raw deal for them.
