Originally Posted By MPierce Does anyone else feel like you're about to enter a Gulag rather than a WDW theme park?
Originally Posted By jmuboy Ummmm, I don't understand what these gates are doing. Funneling the entry through a tiny bag check area like all the other WDW parks? Did DAK's bag check destroy the tree of life pattern that was on the ground?
Originally Posted By jmuboy Ummmm, I don't understand what these gates are doing. Funneling the entry through a tiny bag check area like all the other WDW parks? Did DAK's bag check destroy the tree of life pattern that was on the ground?
Originally Posted By BlueOhanaTerror The gates are aethetically unpleasing and I'll get to judge for myself up close and personal (yay!) in a week, but I have to agree with Sport Goofy - the hyperbole seems kind of unwarranted. However, I'm baffled as to WHY they were placed there in the first place. More than just a questionable design spoiler, these gates seem like a waste of money. How stupid do they think people are, if they intend to prove this provides some extra measure of "security"? Is that really the point? Or is it merely some kind of rerouting device for crowds? They could have planted some hedges for that purpose.
Originally Posted By jonvn A bit of an overreaction, I think. And the truth is if someone wants to do something, they can just blow themselves right outside the security checkpoint, or wear a fat person suit which contains C4. No one checks that, and it could be detonated while in some very crowded conditions after a parade which would maximize the damage. So it's all pointless and serves no purpose anyway.
Originally Posted By Sport Goofy << So it's all pointless and serves no purpose anyway. >> Not exactly true. Controlling the flow of crowds to specific, defined access points is a valid security measure. What's the hardest part of a security operation? It's surveillance. If you can narrow down the area that you need to focus on for specific surveillance functions, the task of identifying threat becomes a bit easier. I haven't seen the gates in person, but it appears to me that they act to funnel guests through specific entry points before reaching the ticket booths as opposed to having a broad flow of guests across the entry way. If you were watching this area on a surveillance camera, having the flow of guests directed towards a narrower entryway might help you pick out unusual circumstances that occur over the much broader area approaching the entrance booths. I don't know that these considerations were at all part of the plan for erecting the new gates, but I can see how this might serve to make surveillance more efficient and effective to detect some abnormalities and threats that would be much more difficult to pick out in a dispersed crowd.
Originally Posted By jonvn IF someone wants to comit a violent act, they still can. This does not prevent it.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 ^^That's my whole point. These things do absolutely nothing in the name of safety. They do inconvenience. They do look butt-ugly. They do make intelligent people realize the fallacy of ever being truly 'safe' in a public place. But make a true 'evildoer' think twice or stop them? Please. Stop living in Fantasyland.
Originally Posted By Sport Goofy << IF someone wants to comit a violent act, they still can. This does not prevent it. >> What measures can totally prevent a violent act? The best you can do is implement controls that might help you better identify threats through efficient surveillance. Or you can erect barriers that might impede or slow down the progress of threat.
Originally Posted By jonvn "What measures can totally prevent a violent act?" Basically not much. So if you can't actually prevent one, there is not much point in imposing measures that don't actually work.
Originally Posted By Sport Goofy << So if you can't actually prevent one, there is not much point in imposing measures that don't actually work. >> You can definitely prevent or deter these acts. You just can't do it 100% of the time. That doesn't mean that deterrence shouldn't be an objective. You can't prevent planes from crashing 100% of the time, but we still invest in a huge amount of infrastructure and engineering to prevent those catastrophic occurances.
Originally Posted By twirlnhurl I don't hate these gates, but they could be much better. Why not expand the current flower beds to make a much more passive crowd controller? Only use gates on the far ends, so they can be opened when the park empties out. That said, the security at the Disney parks, the Airport, etc is a complete waste of time and only deters the stupidest would-be terrorists with the least amount of convictions. Hell, if you're prepared to end your life taking out unarmed civilians, then why wouldn't you take some time to become a Disney employee and do it from the inside?
Originally Posted By jonnyrzone420 I know I said I was going to stop posting, but I shouldn't lets spirit's grudge with me stop me from posting. However, I will try to take some of his advice and post intelligently. I looked into it, the reason the gates were put up in epcot because a young boy injured himself on the ropes that were there originally. So Disney put the gates there because they were safer. And the reason anything is there to begin with is crowd control. Also with the incident that occured yesterday with the adult woman trying to sneak a gun into one of the parks, security is only going to get worse. But it could be worse, there could be magical pitbulls fairytale barbwire.
Originally Posted By jonvn "You can't prevent planes from crashing 100% of the time" No, but you can find out a problem and prevent it from happening. You can't do that with this. Say for example, a plane crashes, they find out the reason, they fix the reason, and so a plane will not crash for that reason now, if all goes right. Here, you are trying to stop behavior. You can't. This effort doesn't really accomplish anything. "why wouldn't you take some time to become a Disney employee and do it from the inside?" Some airport employees have been caught doing this, too.
Originally Posted By RoadTrip I don't think Disney is trying to prevent terrorists. I think they are trying to prevent your run-of-the-mill psychos who shoot up malls and such. I think they're doing what they need to do in our crappy era to try and keep guests save. Not safe from Mohammed Akbar... safe from Steven Anderson.
Originally Posted By Skellington88 Wouldn't Disney have been better off just installing a series of airport security systems ala Universal Studios. You know like have a bunch of metal decetors with security around. Wouldn't that be much better/simpler/more organized by this pointless crap? Do they want something bad to happen to the guests? Who are the imbeciles that come up with this stuff?
Originally Posted By Tink34 I think the gates make it seem like a zoo or a prison instead of a theme park. Epcot is the worse park to get into because of the crappy set up of security...so let's make it worse! I always run into the worse D-security there too! Mean, angry, and inconsiderate...nothing like a Disney Cast member should be.
Originally Posted By MPierce Could some of you folks please explain to me what this fence really does other than look ugly, and maybe give some paranoid people a false sense of security. You still go thru the same security check. You still go thru the same ticket verification. You will still have the same number of CM's at the gates, and selling tickets. Exactly what does it do? Could you bypass these procedures before. Why don't they just herd us into cattle shutes, isn't that even a better way of crowd control. As jonvn said Even a nitwit can smuggle a gun or explosives into WDW if they really want to. I can't believe that this is going to be a benefit to guest. I think it will be just one more inconvience. At least if they had put up metal detectors, like TDLFAN said, it might have been more appropriate. At least Epcot wouldn't have a fence around it's entrance that does absolutely nothing. IF your crazy, and have a gun what good is this fence. You don't even need to get into the park. You have all the targets you need herded together in one little spot.
Originally Posted By Sport Goofy << Could some of you folks please explain to me what this fence really does other than look ugly, and maybe give some paranoid people a false sense of security. >> I already explained previously how these sorts of barriers are designed to move crowds in a way that aids in surveillance. If I have the option of focusing surveillance on a narrow area vs. a dispersed area, I am more likely to be successful in indentifying a threat if a narrow my area of focus. << I can't believe that this is going to be a benefit to guest. >> It's not designed to benefit the guests. It's primary purpose is to benefit the EPCOT security organization. I also ove how everyone correlates the bag checks stands with security. 90% of the security effort is taking place in ways that aren't visible at all to you when you enter the park.
