Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<Basically not much. So if you can't actually prevent one, there is not much point in imposing measures that don't actually work.>> It's PR security. Pure and simple. If someone blows themselves up (and takes a few dozen tourists with them) Disney will be able to say 'we have the most stringent security measures in place' and limit their liablity. But no 'bag check' will ever stop someone who has something strapped to them, or hidden and holstered etc ... that is why these things are a waste. Fine, the evildoer poles do ensure that people can't drive right through the main gates and blow a care up. But the rest of this is simply window-dressing for the ignorant. I know I'm not safe. I don't need to be reminded of it when a $9 an hour CM, takes a quick peek into my bag and let's me go.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<I know I said I was going to stop posting, but I shouldn't lets spirit's grudge with me stop me from posting. >> Slow down pardner ... I have a grudge with no one here, let alone someone who hasn't been here a week. So don't misstate the facts and use me as an excuse to post or not. <<However, I will try to take some of his advice and post intelligently.>> That's a great first step. I'm sure you can do that if you just step back, take a deep breath and think about what you want to say vs. what you are saying. <<I looked into it, the reason the gates were put up in epcot because a young boy injured himself on the ropes that were there originally. So Disney put the gates there because they were safer.>> Really? Where did you find this information? It seems (from my visits there over the summer and early fall) that Disney has been working on crowd flow at the entrance for quite a while. <<And the reason anything is there to begin with is crowd control.>> This I agree with. <<Also with the incident that occured yesterday with the adult woman trying to sneak a gun into one of the parks, security is only going to get worse.>> I haven't heard anything new. But this woman -- unless there is something new -- wasn't trying to sneak anything. She had a weapon and a permit from out of state and had forgotten it in there. I mean, I wouldn't expect Disney Security to actually detect a real danger. It wasn't like she had nefarious plans. The scary thing is, this is exactly why people shouldn't be walking around like this is Dodge City in the 1860s. (OK, where are the NRA wackjobs?)
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<I don't think Disney is trying to prevent terrorists. I think they are trying to prevent your run-of-the-mill psychos who shoot up malls and such. I think they're doing what they need to do in our crappy era to try and keep guests save. Not safe from Mohammed Akbar... safe from Steven Anderson.>> I agree (hold on, I think I'm choking) with Trippy. The thing is, these measures do nothing in that regard. A crazy person is just as likely to walk into the lobby of a Disney hotel or the roof of the Contemporary or around DD and start shooting ... and, as someone else has posted, this kind of person can do huge amounts of damage when hundreds of people are being herded like cattle into a small 'security' area ... it could be like shooting ducks on a pond. Safety doesn't exist in public places in the USA of the 21st century ... think about that the next time you head into a WalMart for your Christmas binge shopping.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<Could some of you folks please explain to me what this fence really does other than look ugly, and maybe give some paranoid people a false sense of security. You still go thru the same security check. You still go thru the same ticket verification. You will still have the same number of CM's at the gates, and selling tickets. Exactly what does it do? Could you bypass these procedures before. Why don't they just herd us into cattle shutes, isn't that even a better way of crowd control. As jonvn said Even a nitwit can smuggle a gun or explosives into WDW if they really want to. I can't believe that this is going to be a benefit to guest. I think it will be just one more inconvience>> This dude makes sense. Lots.
Originally Posted By cmash95 the thing that I personally don't like about the system is you have to walk so far out of your way in order to enter the park and even the shuttle drops you off in an inconvenient area. unless you are taking the monorail because the bag check is just past the ramp. plus the gates do look tacky.
Originally Posted By mousermerf Wow.. lots of convo later.. FerretAros - no offense, but that logo in the pavement was not always there. That used to be a planter, back when Communicore also had several small ponds and the Fountain View and Mouse Gear bulges didn't exist. It was installed later when they revamped the area. Second, the gates would be far more practical if Epcot parking ever did things how they're supposed to. The other parks usually run atleast 3 trams - Epcot is hard pressed to operate any. They try not to as often as possible. How is it a courtesy tram if it's NEVER running? That said, the tram is supposed to unload to the left of the monorail station - not at the loading area under the monorail station. If they had more trams running, this would occur. Then, half of the flow into the park would come from the left, the other half from the monorail and buses - and this whole design would make sense. It's all Epcot parking's fault. The ones who stop parking people at 4pm and are the reason so many cars are parked backwards after they "safely" drive down the row backwards because they couldn't find a space. Stupid lazy Epcot parking.
Originally Posted By FerretAfros I never knew there was a planter in that area. It just seems like an area where the footspace had always been needed, so they kept it open (I've had DL on the brain, so I forgot the scale), and I just assumed (we all know what happens when you assume...) that it had always been there. It just seems like a lot of work to add after it's no longer the park's logo, especially since very few people will recognize it or understand it. When exactly did the change take place? It sounds like arouen '93/'94 with the Communicore/Innoventions swap, but I wasn't aware that there were also ponds and planters removed in the transition.
Originally Posted By mousermerf I'm not exactly sure, but i had thought the same thing and someone produced photos showing otherwise. Sneaking suspicion the area needed more footroom around the time of Splashtacular and the adding of the fountain stage. I'm not positive, but there may have been 2 planters, a small one and larger one like the fountain and teardrop in front of SSE. That said, there was definitely a large sculpture of the space of SSE. That sculpture is still kept backstage by the Epcot Cast Services building. Let's see if i can find it.. Here ya go, the sculpture still backstage: <a href="http://tinyurl.com/22w7mc" target="_blank">http://tinyurl.com/22w7mc</a>
Originally Posted By FerretAfros Also, I can't think of the last time I ever saw a tram running at Epcot. I just assumed (there's that word again) that for whatever reason they completely discontinued their use there. Keeping with the DL on the brain, you can walk pretty far (almost as far as from the last row of spots in Epcot to the tram drop off area) in the Mickey and Friends Parking Structure, just to get to the escalator to the tram loading area. Sure, it's a pain, but it's not that bad.
Originally Posted By mousermerf Pic of communicore before Fountain View and the addition to Mouse Gear: <a href="http://tinyurl.com/2dzf4p" target="_blank">http://tinyurl.com/2dzf4p</a>
Originally Posted By mousermerf As you can see in the pic (squint if needed) the main fountain has parts of its bottom pool that branch out to imply it's connected to the other small ponds. The one at the restaurant (where Electric Umbrella is) was filled in to become seating. The other side is merely the funky lookin entrance to Innoventions west, with the fiber optics in the ground.
Originally Posted By mousermerf Found it! The flagpole in a photo: <a href="http://tinyurl.com/yqvdt9" target="_blank">http://tinyurl.com/yqvdt9</a> I think the sculpture either came later or is just out of frame in that photo.
Originally Posted By jkayjs Well here I go. I've felt this area was lacking for a long time(with the mono station basically casting a shadow over it). Quite frankly I spend so little time there I haven't really put much thought into it. I know that make me complaisant. However since I spend most of my time inside the park-you get the picture. I do feel that the main reason they have taken this action is crowd control. And I'm sure it's easier to spot suspicious behavior(for those that choose to display it). I guess the bottom line is I don't really have strong feelings either way. Of course maybe I don't mind because I believe I may have been a prison matron in a previous life(you get it-fences).
Originally Posted By jkayjs BTW great photos as always TDLFAN. Of course I always have a fave #17 this time.
Originally Posted By FerretAfros I never realized that there were really any changes (other than adding the awning and spinning things for the Millenium) to that area. I really like the look of the old version, but I can't help but wonder what it would be like with modern crowd control. It just looks a lot more open, yet very controled and still normal sized paths, compared to the covered concrete wasteland that we have now. I know it would never happen, but I don't think I would mind too much if they brought those fountain/pool things back. If nothing else, it would help to visually connect with the area in front of the Land with all those pools that seem jarringly out of place compared to the rest of FW. It looks like the central pools had a nice mix of water and land, so it was more of a transition between the two sides. Now it's just a parking lot painted pink.
Originally Posted By twirlnhurl I've never seen those pictures before, that was cool. About Epcot parking, they are the worst. The only reason I don't complain that much is because the parking lot is set up in a way that walking is easier and faster, even if the trams are running. The people actually in charge of parking the cars do a pretty poor job too. Epcot is the only park where there is aways a long line to wait in between the toll booth and being shown your row.
Originally Posted By SuperDry <<< Found it! The flagpole in a photo: <a href="http://tinyurl.com/yqvdt9" target="_blank">http://tinyurl.com/yqvdt9</a> >>> Where's the wand?
Originally Posted By mousermerf I'm not sure if you're serious... but the Wand went up in 1999, that photo is likely 1980's.
Originally Posted By MPierce Thanks for the links mousermerf. >> The scary thing is, this is exactly why people shouldn't be walking around like this is Dodge City in the 1860s. (OK, where are the NRA wackjobs?) << Well, I'm right here Spirit.
