Originally Posted By vbdad55 <My regret is that Disney couldn't find a way to have both the new and the old -< nitting the nail on the head...but yes cost is a factor. They also have to ensure they do not alienate their long time die hards either....we may not be young anymore , but we are the ones with more disposable cash -- the AARP set pays for many of the trips by our kids/grandkids etc.....it's a fine line but you covered it well. Also I don't think UO is still a threat. My soon to be 21 year old and her volleyball friends preferred MK and AK to IOA when they were down at WWoS ....so it is not every young person that wants nothing but thrills. If that was so Six Flags would be the undisputed king of parks. Disney can't just stop being Disney either....it is what set's them apart and makes them special TDLFAN, I share your concern, but if the success/failure of Disneyquest has taught them anything, the world is not ready for that just yet.
Originally Posted By MrToadWildRider I think a ride like ToT and Splash Mountain are perfect examples of what Disney should be doing - they are old school Dark Ride magic with new school thrills (although flume rides are hardly 'new school' but you get the point). >>My soon to be 21 year old and her volleyball friends preferred MK and AK to IOA when they were down at WWoS ....so it is not every young person that wants nothing but thrills. If that was so Six Flags would be the undisputed king of parks.<< But IOA is a lot better than Six Flags. Spiderman is incredible and one of my favorite rides anywhere, it's a dark ride with a unique flair. Jurassic Park is a great ride with realistic (Mostly, although from what I remember UOH have better) dinosaurs and a big splash down at the end. Popeye is a lot more fun and wet than Kali imo, Ripsaw Falls is really fun, and the Cat in the Hat is pretty nice. Those are all rides that aren't simply standard amusement park fare such as the coasters or Doctor Doom. To say UO isn't really competition for Disney I would say is not necessarily true - they've gone from 1 park to 2 parks, 3(?) hotels, and citywalk since it opened - that's a big expansion. The thing about UO is they feed off guests who go to central Florida for Disney but I don't think people who go to the are for UO typically are the people interested in Disney.(although there are probably many many less - locals or people for Horror Nights etc.) I have no numbers to back that up but I'm just saying I know of plenty of families, mine included, who go to Florida for Disney but end up going to both Universal Parks, but the folks who are interested in he UO/IOA experience don't seem to be the type looking to ride Peter Pan's Flight and Dumbo and thus RnRC, Mission: Space etc. are born.
Originally Posted By vbdad55 < To say UO isn't really competition for Disney I would say is not necessarily true - they've gone from 1 park to 2 parks, 3(?) hotels, and citywalk since it opened - that's a big expansion. < Not competition as I believe you are mostly correct in that they are 2 different audiences. Also IOA has never met stated goals for attendance / profit -- hard to tell somewhat with 9/11 influence earlier, but financially it has not been a boon to them, whereas usually the theme parks are a money maker for Disney. Not saying UO isn't better than Six Flags, it certainly is...
Originally Posted By Kennesaw Tom I think in someways UO and IOA have surpassed Disney. Back to the furture, MIB and Sponge Bob are great! Twister is exactly the sort of attration that would be incredibly suited for MGM.
Originally Posted By TDLFAN In some ways...maybe but strip IOA of it's more elaborate theming and you still have the same stuff they have at 6 flags for the most part... coasters and water raft rides.. However, I do believe it's Disney who has let the guard down and become more like the rest. Not a good in my book.
Originally Posted By MrToadWildRider <<In some ways...maybe but strip IOA of it's more elaborate theming and you still have the same stuff they have at 6 flags for the most part..>> Couldn't you say that about Disney too though? All three mountains would just be 2 mighty mouse coasters and a flume ride, Fantasy Land would just be a bunch of cheesy dark rides like those with the buzzers and light up masks that go "ARRRGG" as your car goes by along with a carousell and spinning ride, etc. The elaborate theming is what sets the Disneys and the UOs above everyone else and seperates them from amusement park to THEME park. Some of them aren't as immersive as Disney dark rides but Spiderman certainly is as is JP imho. I just don't see either Disney or the Universals as "Amusement" parks - they're in the special category of "Theme" Park so many claim to be but I just don't see. I don't care what they say Busch Gardens is not a theme park, I went to someplace called Holiday World with my cousins when I visited them in the Midwest and despite the park calling itself one it was NOT a theme park. You can't just slap a name on a section of your park like Christmas Land or Zimbabwe and have the shops have little African decors or elves on the wallpaper and then have a bunch of standard rollercoasters and say "This is a Theme Park" - no, it's an amusement park that is tryig to elevate itself to the next tier. I don't see UO/IOA as doing this but an actual theme park. Anyway this got away from the Epcot focus so I'm gonna stop
Originally Posted By vbdad55 Well it can tie back to EPCOT easily as what set EPCOT apart from ALL other parks anywhere, was the edutainment value......yet it seems the quick fix appeasement of the masses is weakening that a great deal....if it continues thenn EPCOT becomes just another park in the Disney/UO stable, undifferent from the rest. I hope they always maintain a level of education with the entertainment
Originally Posted By RoadTrip <<and still think Mission:Space isn't good enough to kill Horizons>> Mission Space didn't kill Horizons. A building that was falling apart killed Horizons. As for Universal Orlando, I agree that they are first class parks and major competition for WDW. At the present time Universal Studios is a far better park that Disney/MGM Studios.
Originally Posted By trailsend I'm so excited. I think EPCOT Center is so very special and I'll be there strolling around World Showcase Saturday!!!! I'll be thinking about you all!!! ºOº
Originally Posted By Goofyernmost I have to say that with the exception of Spiderman...IOA sucks. Unfortunately, California Adventure is an imitation of IOA and the only worthwhile ride for us "elderly" is Sourin'. The three other parks in Florida besides MK make up WDW and UO is running a very close second, IMHO, to that conglomeration. Others have mentioned some of the rides at UO that are nearly as good as or perhaps equal to Disney. Well, I think that "Terminator" exceeds anything that Disney has ever done, anywhere. I have seen it on both coasts, in Florida, many times and it has never come off bad. Everything has always worked, the timing was incredible and the show completely entertaining. The best part is that it has a strong "Do again" draw. I think that everyone, including Disney, has underestimated Universals ability to compete with Disney on Disney's level and above. And I'm a Disney Freak!
Originally Posted By vbdad55 Yet at 6.3 M for IOA and 6.7 M for U S in 2004, each is over a million people a year behind Animal Kingdom for 5th place..... They are growing however and there needs to be a response for sure...I think Disney was banking on Mission:Space but the shuttle accident hurt any attempt at advertising too much for that up front.
Originally Posted By Labuda "Likewise, I don't hang out with bratty children in oversized strollers so you won't be seeing me either. " pssst.... TDLFAN... I've met Blazes... She's a very lovely young lady AND she can even walk all by herself!!!
Originally Posted By MrToadWildRider I think the rides are still educational just not AS educational as they once were. They've gone a little bit more for the "tainment" part of the Edutainment philosophy - but I think TT and M:S both still have educational values tied in. Are they the same as say SSE and WoM? No - but they do teach guests about safety processes automobiles go through prior to hitting the showroom and they give a little insight on space travel. If I'm not mistaken the M:S ride is actually equipment used during training stages of becoming an astronaut? I'm only 21 but I've been going to WDW on an anual or bi-anual basis for my entire life but I still won't claim to really know the parks during a period closer to their birth as many of you have - but I can easily recall the EPCOT of older times - pre-Norway/Wonders of Life, WoM, Horizons, JII, and Eo, Kitchen Kabaret and Listen to the Land. That time had a very different feel to EPCOT and it did feel somewhat more special or magical than it does today but I don't think I'm being an apologist for saying I think that Disney is atleast trying in some ways to maintain EPCOT as best they can in a new age of park goer. Plus a lot of people love TT and M:S - I think they're both great although Mission is a little dissapointing after the hype and I bet if in 20 years the park is still around (Hopefully) and they're dismantling TestTrack for some fancy new ride there will be a bunch of people talking about all the sentimentality they have for it and how much they'll miss it.
Originally Posted By vbdad55 Toad, impressive overall long-term perspective for only being 21 -- and recognition that the park felt different back when you were younger. And you are probably right about TT. Not meaning to sound old -folksy here, but I don't think my vision was near as good as yours when I was 21 - oh so many summers ago.....
Originally Posted By fkurucz >>Ain't it da truth! I cannot tell you how many times I have heard, "they don't make cars like they used to" and all I can say is thank god! When one is remembering, with adoration, the good old days of cars they fail to remember that if a car got to 100k it was nothing short of a miracle.<< Yup. There was a reason that cars only had 12,000 mile warranties back then. Also, the number of major defects that new cars came with back then would be utterly unacceptable today. It was a given that you would be taking that new Ford or Chevy back to the dealer within a few days with a long punch list of things that needed to be fixed.
