Originally Posted By FerretAfros "I have a great picture of a stroller parking area in front of HKDL City Hall with NO strollers in it." I don't think I've ever seen anything listed as an actual attraction not have any strollers in front of it. Between City Hall and Snow White's Grotto, who would guess that those headliner attractions wouldn't have full stroller parking lots at all times?!? : ) I wonder what affect (if any) the addition of the Pooh playground has had on the traffic over to TSI. While they are the same (very) general concept, TSI is much better done, but aimed at kids who are a little older. Add in the hastle of having to catch a raft over there, and it really makes me wonder how many of the lazy generation actually want to make the trek across the river to check out what's out there.
Originally Posted By bobbelee9 <<I just wonder what kids ever did for fun (or to let off steam) at WDW before things like Pooh's Playground?>>> There use to be a playground area with slides and a maze. I think it was where Donald's Boat & Barnstormer are now. That area anyway. And MPierce is right about changing the location. Other than riding the train, I never went to Toontown this year.
Originally Posted By bobbelee9 Considering the price to rent a stroller or EVC, I'm suprised so many do it. I still don't understand everyone's infatuation with 20,000 Leaks. Things were clearly hanging by wires/chains, everything looked so phoney. Now compare 1979's 20K with the 2006 Jack Sparrow in PoC. Disney's come a loooog way. I'm sure now they could some up with a 20k that looked more real.
Originally Posted By CarolinaDisneyDad When we need to blow off steam, we head to Tom sawyer's island. We pack a little lunch and then while mom sleeps on a bench we play hide and seek. We have those 2 mile radios attached to their shoulder straps on their backpacks so we are always in contact and then we can do the hot or cold thing. we use both islands and nowhere is off limits. moving is allowed. The only rule is that they have to stay together.( for safety) It's one of our favorite things to do at the parks. We finish with a game of checkers.
Originally Posted By ImaginingDisney ><>< I still don't understand everyone's infatuation with 20,000 Leaks. ><>< 20,000 Leagues was decades NEWER than the sub adventure at DL and was a tradition to loyal guests as well as having been based on a Disney Movie (for those who insist on attractions based on Disney movies). Though Walt did not see it built, it was in his plans. There is little doubt if Walt were running things, the 20,000 leagues would never have been sacrificed due to a rouse led by cost beaten cast members. The new regime needs an extra dose of Pixie Dust and a firm kick in the, nedar region. hmmm though 20,000 L did have some concerns, it had/has a following and until the day they filled it in, they were getting messages from guests wanting to know when it would re-open. (documented) Claims that the subs were falling apart and leaking hold little value as these subs were brand new compared to the old ones restored at DL. I also do not buy into the high maintenance of underwater parts as the dominant reason that they tore the attraction out. I have experienced systems that have equipmnt underwater, and true, if they have moving parts underwater, there will always be a concern but we never experienced any malfunctions to the point of having to rip equipment out. The attraction itself was worth millions so the maintenance cost was still small in comparison. The boards decision to rip it out was a bad one. Someone just yesterday was talking about that space and commented on what a waste of space to have filled it in and plant trees and grass. Duh! And for the lack of good use of the land, (including the building) that now sits wasted, it would have been far more beneficial to have kept the attraction. The tendency is to get rid of attractions and not replace, so I don't favor losing ANY attractions at any of the parks. The parks are supposed to be the Disney Companies Cash Cows, (documented) so maintenance or any other cost concern would be in the equation. But as said before, The parks are no longer managed as Walt would have.
Originally Posted By sjhym33 I have to step into this discussion to comment on 20K and its demise. The article noted at the begginning of this post had its origin from a Jim Hill article from several years ago. When that article first came out I emailed Jim Hill and told him that the information in the article was not true. It was a rather long email about what really happened and how I knew about it. The reality about 20,000 Leagues was that it was in fact an attraction that had been falling apart for years. When I worked in the MK in the mid-1980's the submarines were leaking terribly. The water falls had been turned down to a trickle instead of a full waterfall to keep the subs from flooding. You may remember that when the subs pass under the waterfall it created the effect of a terrible storm that forces the subs to go into deeper water. The problem was the entrance and exit hatches, as they got older, did not seal and keep the water out anymore. In fact, I was involved in a test in which we turned the waterfall onto full and ran subs under it. After the first pass there was over an inch of water on the floor. In fairness to Disney they attempted to fix the problem. There was a full time fiberglass maitenance person who worked continually to keep the hatches operational and trying to create a seal to keep the water out. Disney spent a lot of time trying to engineer a fix. This included reinforcing the hatches, new types of seals and on one sub removing the entire hatch component and replace it with another hatch system. Nothing worked. The end result was living with the subs as they were. But even the trickle waterfall creates some leaking inside the subs. The hatches were not the only problem though. The water filtration system of 20,000 Leagues began to not work properly during the late 1980's. This created the problem of very cloudy water. There were some days that the water was so cloudy and visability was so poor that we were unable to open the attraction. Maitenance worked daily on the problem and during one of the rehabs the system was taken apart and cleaned and fixed as best as it could be. However, the fix was only temporary and the water became cloudy again AND the underwater set peices got dirtier and dirtier. Despite the fact that the attraction had divers in the water daily cleaning the set peices, there were days that the polar ice caps were black with soot. The continued problems led to the decision that a major rehab was required to bring 20K back to its original standard. While the executives in the MK were waiting for the money to be approved, 20K was scheduled for its normal rehab. The decision was made to do a mini-rehab in the hopes that Burbank would appropriate the money for a major rehab the following fiscal year. The ideas was if we could save money on the current rehab, a larger rehabe would be approved. Part of selling Burbank on giving the money for the rehab included tours to Eisner, Ovitz as well as others. At NO time did anyone at the MK try to pull the wool over the executives eyes. The feeling in the park was the state of the attraction would speak for itself. The executives were given rides, walked thru the very musty show building that held a majority of the ride and a tour of the surrounding areas of 20K to see how the lagoon was leaking and how the MK Costume Area(which bumped up to 20K at the time) was getting wetter each year. Budgets were drawn up for a major rehab of the attraction that included the cost of new submarines. Several other alternatives were looked at including rebuilding the existing subs in the hope of fixing some of their problems. The additional issue of how to make the attraction ADA accessible was raised. If the attraction was to close for many months for a major rehab, the expectation was that the new or fully redone subs would need to be made accessable to people with mobility challenges. You have to remember that this was a time when the Disney Company was very sensitive to the needs of their guests with needs after several lawsuits. Eventually the money for a full rehab was not approved. The reason, we were told, was that after crunching numbers, the decision was a new, higher capacity attraction was being considered for the 20K location. There were rumors that the MK might get another roller coaster mountain...possibly the Matterhorn. But of course that didnt happen. As you can guess, 20,000 Leagues got worse and worse and the decision was made to close the attraction. Many of the management of the MK were unhappy and disappointed that the money was never approved and that the attraction was forced to close. At the same time there were continued promises of a new attraction for that area. My issue with the article is that it makes it seem that mgmt in the MK purposely tried to do 20K in. That was not the case. I also do not believe that the executives in California purposely wanted to kill 20K. I think what happened was there was a decision not to spend a lot of money on an attraction that was high in maitenance costs, high in personel costs and a fairly low capacity with the thought that the land would be used for a new attraction. But as often happens at Disney, plans change and unfortunately for all of us we lost a great attraction because of it.
Originally Posted By bobbelee9 ^^^Thank you for that explaination. We first rode the subs in 1979, one of my daughters got very dripped on. That's why we've always referred to it as 20K Leaks instead of Leagues.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<Part of selling Burbank on giving the money for the rehab included tours to Eisner, Ovitz as well as others>> Interesting considering Mike Ovitz was a super agent and not part of Disney management back in the early 1990s timeframe.
Originally Posted By sjhym33 Thanks. Been lurking for a couple of years. I thought Ovitz rode 20k before it closed...though I could be wrong since he didnt join the company until 1995. I do remember that we had many people from California doing ride thrus while the future of the attraction was discussed.
Originally Posted By vbdad55 <<<Today I noticed that Poo's Playfun Spot was basically a ghost town even with huge crowds in the Magic Kingdom today.>> That's because it's crap.< clap clap clap clap clap clap clap Yeah Nikki !!!!
