Originally Posted By DAR <<By the way, if you google Beaumandy, you'll see that he's still out there stirring up the pot along side Dirk Diggler. He was posting fairly recently on the forums associated with a Air America radio show.>> I just googled Beau's name(I refuse to google Dirk's name at work) and notice two things. First, the guy is consistent, can't deny that. Second who the heck has that kind of time to post on all those boards.
Originally Posted By jonvn "but you have pontificating how stupid we all are because we have not done the same" I never said you were stupid. I said what I would do, and that I could not in any good conscience continue to associate, and that the reasoning I was given seem basically insignificant. I do think your beliefs, as any religious beliefs, are irrational and false, and said that as well. That has nothing to do with being Catholic. I would say such a thing to someone of any religion.
Originally Posted By DVC_dad Religion in and of itself is not bad. A more accurate term is religious tradition. Religion can be a very powerful tool, for not only self improvement, but also in such things as raising successful children. There is nothing wrong, and acutally nothing irrational about religion. Man has naturally sought answers to his questions over the ba-zillions of years he has walked this planet. Religion is a very simple method of answering those questions. Conceptually, religion or having religious beliefs, isn't at all irrational.
Originally Posted By DVC_dad I mean think about it... The Earth seems flat, rationally. I am educated to to know better, however, I take it on faith that the Earth is round. I mean in all seriousness I have never walked the entire surface (headed east until I got back to the starting point.) So I really DON'T know first hand that the Earth is round. It is far more rational, to use that buzzword, to believe that (based on my personal experience with gravity and walking around) that the Earth is actually flat. So, "rational thought" as YOU define it, which can actually be different based on unique experiences of the thinker, has nothing to do with religion.
Originally Posted By jonvn "I have never walked the entire surface (headed east until I got back to the starting point.)" You'd have to swim a bit in addition to walking. I think religion is bad. It is the cause of a great deal of suffering. I know some people say it helps many, but it also hurts many. In the end it probably balances out making it of little use even more so.
Originally Posted By wahooskipper I think human beings are the cause of a great deal of suffering. But, let's talk about "extremism" for a moment. Isn't that a pretty subjective word? I mean, if I agreed with jon on everything he said I would certainly not term him an extremist. But, if I disagreed with him vehemently on everything he said....Well, you get the picture. What is "extreme", in my opinion, is continuing to go back and forth knowing that you aren't going to change anyone's opinion. Sort of the, "doing the same thing over and over expecting a different result." That is why I've stopped posting in these threads. It isn't because I gave up in my convictions.
Originally Posted By jonvn "Isn't that a pretty subjective word?" Yes and no. When a person comes on here, and says that EVERYONE else is "liberal," when in fact there is an entire spectrum of beliefs, then they are on the extreme end. I said this before, but when you are standing at the North Pole, every direction you look in is south. I don't think the idea here is to change anyone's opinion, but to discuss things, and share thoughts, and debate. Maybe once in a while someone will actually think about something and change their mind, but that does not happen often.
Originally Posted By DAR <<What is "extreme", in my opinion, is continuing to go back and forth knowing that you aren't going to change anyone's opinion. Sort of the, "doing the same thing over and over expecting a different result.">> Doesn't that fall under insanity?
Originally Posted By ecdc >>First, the guy is consistent, can't deny that.<< I'm not trying to pick on Beau, since he can't defend himself (not that he won't show up under another sock puppet and try, however) but I'm always amazed when people say this as if it's a good thing. "He has conviction in his beliefs, ya gotta give 'em that!" Yeah, so did Mohammad Atta. Changing one's mind is a good thing. I did it about Bush. So did SPP and a dozen others on these boards. We have deeper convictions than just loyalty to the Republican Party.
Originally Posted By DAR <<but I'm always amazed when people say this as if it's a good thing.>> Well I really didn't say that it was a good thing. All I said was that I noticed he was consistent. <<Changing one's mind is a good thing. I did it about Bush. So did SPP and a dozen others on these boards.>> And that's perfectly fine, Bush deserves as much criticism as possible. I just don't subscribe to having pure hatred and contempt for the man. <<We have deeper convictions than just loyalty to the Republican Party.>> I would hope people would have deeper convictions than loyalty to either party.
Originally Posted By DVC_dad <<<knowing that you aren't going to change anyone's opinion>>> Actually this isn't true. I have changed my opinion on more than a few things by reading and discussing things on these boards. And I don't thing that I am a wishy washy, weak minded individual, who gets tossed by the wind either. Some of these things have been HUGE MAJOR shifts in my way of thinking. People that have changed the way I think over the many LP months to name a few: Pixie Glitter Kennesaw Tom TDG SPP Spirit Mr X of course Beau whom I miss Roadtrip vbdad55 Trailsend jonvn Lisann Chickie D cape cod joe Now I can think back to each and every one of these posters and the exact thing that they changed. Don't scream for my head on a pole, I'm not defending each of the above listed posters. I am merely saying that I have learned something that was ultimately positive from each. Most of them have no idea of how my thinking changed, some of them (Pixie Glitter, Tall Disney Guy) I have told outright. Some of them have had negative impacts that ultimately have had a positive result for me. So to say, I don't post beause <<<you aren't going to change anyone's opinion>>> is very far from the truth. You just never know whom you will effect in a very positive way...in one such case I can honestly say that I am an outright better person and that person (Kennesaw Tom) has no idea at all of the positive impact he has had on me. Offer up your opinion. Maybe you get through to one single person on one small issue out of each 1,000 posts, but it might be worth it.
Originally Posted By fkurucz << Now that the extremists have left>> If anything, I think that its the "non-extremists" who left, after getting tired of all the mud slinging and ad-hominem attacks that seem to have become the standard fare in WE.
Originally Posted By jonvn Well, no. As I said, when a person labels EVERYONE as one thing, that's extreme. We're not all one thing. But if someone views everyone but them as a polar opposite, that's a real indicator.
Originally Posted By Dabob2 <If anything, I think that its the "non-extremists" who left, after getting tired of all the mud slinging and ad-hominem attacks that seem to have become the standard fare in WE.> Actually, there are quite a lot of moderates here now, and the attacks (with the possible exception of the religion threads) have really decreased. Beau used to do nothing but attack, and a couple of others who haven't been around lately did a lot of it too. Religion really cuts deep with people, but other than that we've had some interesting, intelligent discussions.
Originally Posted By TomSawyer >As I said, when a person labels EVERYONE as one thing, that's extreme.< So you're saying that every person who labels everyone as one thing is extreme?
Originally Posted By vbdad55 possible yes, likely probably not - but let's look at the landscape - we could have either the first female president, the first black president or the first Mormon president for 3 of the top 6 or so candidates -- so history has a pretty even up shot of being made somehow. I just wish there was one candidate I was convinced who would actually be successful ..fixing Iraq, fixing the off shoring of our kids futures, fixing an education system too expensive for many kids to be competitive globally, fixing crime , fixing what I view as the lowering of standards..... or at least make an honest dent in some of these items.... I just don't see them yet -- I could care less what party, what gender, what religion or what race -- none of those things are the least bit important to me if they can do any of the aforementioned
Originally Posted By barboy Out of the following list of "unelectable" traits/ distinctions/associations in presidential elections I have arranged them in the most excusable to voters to the absolutely least. 1. female 2. not having a university degree 3. unmarried 4. non- christian 5. non- white 6. being an independent(party) 7. sporting a readily visible physical disability. 8. gay 9. charged with a sex crime 10. having a pronounced stutter 11. being hideous looking
