Originally Posted By jdub Well, if PAT ROBERTSON believes in global warming... ...I am no longer so sure it's a scientific reality!
Originally Posted By DAR Just for the record, those of us who Christians don't all subscribe to the Falwell's beliefs or views. I hope some of you will take note of that.
Originally Posted By Dabob2 <Just for the record, those of us who Christians don't all subscribe to the Falwell's beliefs or views. > I'm a Christian and I certainly don't. I doubt many on LP do. As much as Falwell liked to pretend that there was just one Christian perspective on any given issue, of course that's nonsense. Thanks for the quotes, though, Gadzuux. I'm one of those who was brought up not to speak ill of the dead, at least shortly after their death; that's not to say I was raised to be hypocritical and speak well of them, but in such a case, to simply say nothing at all. So bravo for letting Falwell's own words speak volumes about him.
Originally Posted By Inspector 57 Good point, DAR. And for the record, many of us who aren't Christians understand that there is quite a bit of diversity of belief, sincerity, and behavior among those who identify as Christians.
Originally Posted By melekalikimaka Absolutely, I do not believe that Falwell spoke for most Christians.
Originally Posted By jonvn "Christians don't all subscribe to the Falwell's beliefs or views. I hope some of you will take note of that." Yes, it's perfectly understandable.
Originally Posted By Mr X **"If he's going to be the counterfeit of Christ, [the Antichrist] has to be Jewish. The only thing we know is he must be male and Jewish."** Not only is this one filled with bile and prejudice, it doesn't even make any sense! If this theory of the anti-christ is indicating a polar opposite of Jesus, three things are wrong. 1) Jesus was a Jew, so that'd be more similar than different. 2) To be "opposite" of a religious figure, you'd think that person would be an atheist at the very least. Perhaps one who is so charming he convinces masses of people that atheism is the way to go. 3) Why would it HAVE to be a guy? Wouldn't the "opposite" of Jesus be a woman? (I guess he has enough respect for Satan that it couldn't POSSIBLY be a lowly woman who appears)
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Originally Posted By DAR <<3) Why would it HAVE to be a guy? Wouldn't the "opposite" of Jesus be a woman? (I guess he has enough respect for Satan that it couldn't POSSIBLY be a lowly woman who appears)>> Ever see Passion of the Christ? Satan was presented as an androgonus(sp) figure.
Originally Posted By JeffG Before I make this point, let me make it completely clear that I think most of Falwell's views, including the quote in question, are absolutely vile. With regards to the Anti-Christ quote, though, he used the word "counterfeit". Isn't that term generally used to refer to a duplicate of something that is revealed to be a fake on close examination? If so, then Falwell's warped comment was at least internally logical. A fake copy of Jesus would share the same key traits that he did. Of course, this particular bit of theology does seem to pretty much come out of nowhere and is certainly way, way, out of the mainstream... -Jeff
Originally Posted By Disneyman55 >>>No. You are incorrect. Being black is not the same thing as being a "religious" person. You are born black, and it does not define anything about you other than skin color and how you want it to define you. A religious person takes on the ideas and beliefs of a certain religion in a totally voluntary manner. I would suggest that you should work on your analogies a bit.<<< Jonvn, you can defend it all you want. But this has nothing to do with what a person is or does, this has to do with the practice of lumping people together. I didn't say it was typical, but you do seem to see alot of Democrats pull a stunt like this.
Originally Posted By jonvn "Jonvn, you can defend it all you want." I'm glad to have your permission. "But this has nothing to do with what a person is or does, this has to do with the practice of lumping people together." There is nothing wrong with lumping people together based on their behavior. For example, I would say members of the KKK are a bunch of ignorant bigots. Oh no! I've lumped a bunch of people together! "I didn't say it was typical, but you do seem to see alot of Democrats pull a stunt like this." Really? Because I don't. Ususally when someone does some insane thing to a child, they have a bible clutched in their hand.
Originally Posted By Disneyman55 >>>Really? Because I don't. Ususally when someone does some insane thing to a child, they have a bible clutched in their hand.<<< Ok, I am wrong, you are obviously not above this. I am going to assume the rational thing and come to the conclusion that you are not painting all Christians with the same brush. As I very conservative evangelical christian, I would point out that the kinds of people who would do those kinds of things are certainately not Christian, as no group I know would claim them. Not to mention, that to be Christian is to desire to be Christ-like, and I sincerely doubt that if microwaves were available in the 1st century A.D. he would have ever put a child in one. But this whole conversation also proves by earlier premise about Falwell. He did much more damage than good, no matter what his intentions. Now we have a whole generation who only see Christians as being judgemental louts like him. This engenders a sense of dislike, which engenders a potential to see all the negative done and sterotype all Christians in that light. This engenders a defense mechanism in a Christian, causing them to fight all the harder. This engenders greater dislike from those who are not Christians. This engenders more defense....ad infinitum nauseum.
Originally Posted By Goofyernmost And as all you Christians know, I'm sure, it is not YOUR job to judge. As a Christian you know it is God's place to judge and frankly no mere mortal has the ability to know if what Falwell said was correct or incorrect. We are basing it all on our narrow perception of what and how things should be within our ability to grasp it. That said, I think Falwell was a massive structure of hot air, but then again I never claimed to be basing this on my religious beliefs. It is based on what I see and what is logical me. Might I, as an everyday person, be wrong? You betcha! I am not that quick to be all that righteous.
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Originally Posted By jonvn "Ok, I am wrong, you are obviously not above this." What I'm not above is hiding my opinion because it is not something you want to personally hear. "I would point out that the kinds of people who would do those kinds of things are certainately not Christian, as no group I know would claim them" If they say they are Christian, then they are. All you have to do is have faith in Jesus as your savior, and that's all it takes. It does not require anything else, like good works. As far as any "group" taking them, you don't need to belong to a group to be a christian, just believe. "He did much more damage than good" Falwell was just another in a long line of individuals who wanted to exercise their religious activity in the political arena. He is nothing new, and we will see many more like him. "Now we have a whole generation who only see Christians as being judgemental louts like him." Only a very large segment. Not all. Besides, as a member of a group who has basically been persecuted for two millenia by "christians," this individual hardly matters. "This engenders a defense mechanism in a Christian, causing them to fight all the harder." Fight all you want. It only makes you look even more like a judgemental and self-absorbed religious intolerant. I don't care one way or the other. I have my opinions, and they are hardly ever anything but reinforced by the behavior of those people in the various religios around the world. Almost never are they demonstrated to not be right. Fight fight fight. Maybe another inquisition would work for you. It did a lot for the Catholics in the 15th century.
Originally Posted By BlueDevilSF >>"Christians don't all subscribe to the Falwell's beliefs or views. I hope some of you will take note of that."<< No, but what made him such a danger was how his words allow his followers and others of his ilk to abandon all rational thought. This is another reason why I take no joy in his death. There are far too many others like him to take his place. There is little difference between him and a person like Fred Phelps. The message is pretty much the same. It's only the delivery that's different.
Originally Posted By Disneyman55 Jonvn, I am glad you don't hide your opinion or try to be a peacemaker. It makes it easier to read your words and not be amazed. You obviously do not have a clue what it takes to be Christian. Belief alone does not make you Christian. James said "the devils believe and tremble", but they are not Christian. Christian means christ-like. To be Christ-like does require action. One of those is to follow the teachings that Jesus gave in his Sermon on the Mount, where he talked about humility and love. Any fool can say he believes but that does not make him Christian. This myth or purposeful misconception just gives individuals like you who would rather despise, the opportunity to point at multiple people throughout history and paint them with a broad brush. There have been many individuals who have claimed Christianity only as an attempt to gain more power but that does NOT make them Christian. There have been many who even say they believe, but thier actions have not been Christ-like. Indeed Jesus said "they shall know you by your works". If you read the Bible, you would know that the things you say are convenient half-truths to further your biased view. You bring up the same old blather. Anyone who reads history can tell you that the inquisition was a cold-blooded attempt to take the property of rich unbelievers. It was about as Christian as I am the pope. Jesus would have never supported such action. I will tell you there have been some hideous things done in Christ's name, but is the action, not the belief, that identifies someone as Christian, so I can tell you that those who have done such things, no matter what they claimed were about as Christian as I am a green, three eyed Martian. You say that Christians deserve to be stereotyped because they have chosen to be Christian, to which I would reply that I was under the impression that stereotyping in general is an insult that you are above. I suspect you could really care less as it sounds like you have already made up your mind. But as least be accurate.
