Originally Posted By t1lersm0m Ok, here's my problem with what everyone on this thread is saying: "The company maintains, however, that the original ride, still available to thrill-seeking guests, is safe for healthy individuals who abide by the multiple cautionary signs and prerecorded audio warnings at the ride’s entrance and queue which address pregnancy, heart conditions, motion sickness and back problems." According to the article, the boy's heart condition was undiagnosed. If he was tall enough to ride, then how are the parents partially to blame for his death? I just don't trust a ride that can kill people with undiagnosed heart conditions, or high blood pressure. To me, it's scary. Maybe I'm just being ignorant, but I really don't know how anyone could change my mind on that.
Originally Posted By t1lersm0m <<I don't believe it's poor judgement on the mother's part either. Age has no bearing on the child's death. If an adult-aged child had an undetected heart defect, would you still blame the mother? I don't think so.>> Well said, Russ.
Originally Posted By trekkeruss Suppose he had died on Soarin'. Would you suddenly stop going on that ride?
Originally Posted By wahooskipper But he didn't die on Soarin'. The death occurred on Mission: Space...a ride with a history of ill riders, some requiring trips to the hospital, not too mention the other death. I love Disney and I am a "fanboy" of the enth degree...but I think they have a problem here and they must think so too or they would not have altered the ride in any way.
Originally Posted By trekkeruss <<they must think so too or they would not have altered the ride in any way.>> But they didn't alter the ride, they only altered one centrifuge.
Originally Posted By trekkeruss ^^In other words, the "risk" to Disney is still there. All they have done is provide an alternate experience for those who were previously afraid to ride. It doesn't address the issue of riders such as the two that died.
Originally Posted By wahooskipper You say tomato, I say tomahto. In altering that one centrifuge they now have an out for the next (God forbid) tragedy. "Well we are sorry the individual got sick/died but we do have a less intense experience that they chose to bypass."
Originally Posted By ssWEDguy >> Disney has a greater responsibility for determining who should or should not ride << Maybe there should be a medical person in the line to give everyone a mini-checkup before they go on. (<---- joking)
Originally Posted By Fe Maiden <<You say tomato, I say tomahto. In altering that one centrifuge they now have an out for the next (God forbid) tragedy. "Well we are sorry the individual got sick/died but we do have a less intense experience that they chose to bypass.">> I'd love to see Disney make that argument in front of a jury. They could rename the ride "Disney's Russian Roullette."
Originally Posted By wahooskipper ssWEDguy, you are not far off from historical accuracy. There were coasters back in the golden age of wooden coasters that had nurses stationed at the site becuase injuries were numerous. I believe the old Riverview Bobs of Chicago was one such coaster. Another was the Harry Traver Cyclone at Crystal Beach. That nurse was originally hired to help keep insurance costs down. History is doomed to repeat itself.
Originally Posted By Coachbagfanatic1 >>According to the article, the boy's heart condition was undiagnosed. If he was tall enough to ride, then how are the parents partially to blame for his death?<< JMPO - I am not blaming the mother for the child's undiagnosed illness. How was she too know. I was simply stating that the ride is very intense for an adult let alone a child. Their bodies have not developed properly yet to be able to with stand such a ride. Too me as a parent, there should have been a judgment call on the mothers behalf not to take her son on the ride. Why would you want to subject your child to being sick. Children of that age are not able to comprehend the instructions of the ride. Thus the debate continues....
Originally Posted By sherrytodd <<I just don't trust a ride that can kill people with undiagnosed heart conditions, or high blood pressure. To me, it's scary.>> A girl died in the wave pool at Typhoon Lagoon the past year with an undiagnosed heart condition. That's why I refuse to let my son near water. I don't even let him take a bath. COME ON!! No one is to blame here. It is not the parents fault, it is not Disney's faulty, it was a freak accident that was going to happen somewhere eventually. Yes it happened on Mission Space. Yes the media is going to blow it completely out of scope. Notice that the media didn't hype the death of the little girl in the wave pool. Doesn't get people worked up the same way and raise the ratings. Everyone always wants someone to blame, but sometimes there is no one to blame. You know what happens. I am sorry for the family, but also angry at them and the lawyers for looking for a quick payout. It won't bring their son back. And the arguement that there is no ride like this anywhere else in the world does not hold water. Centrafuge rides are the staple of the amusement park industry and subject people to far greater g-forces for longer periods of time then M:S. Head to your local amusement park or county fair and you'll find lots of them. As I said before, M:S is nothing but a plussed Tilt-a-Whirl and on the scale at 2.5 G's it's not a very intense one, but enough to make some people prone to motion sickness sick. BTW: My son first rode M:S when he was 6 years old and it was and still is his absolute favorite ride at all of WDW. I do not feel that this makes me a bad or negligent parent.
Originally Posted By Fe Maiden <<Their bodies have not developed properly yet to be able to with stand such a ride.>> Let's assume Disney agrees with you. Then if you've determined that someone at 44 inches is not yet fully developed to withstand the physical intesity of the ride, why not increase the height restrictions from the outset? Is it because you've spent millions upon millions of dollars on this ride and to get the maximum return on investment, need to have as many people as possible ride MS. Thereby pushing the envelope on who is reasonably able to ride and in effect putting children such as this boy at unnecessary risk? I think what I hear you saying Mr. Disney suit on the stand is that the company made a conscious decision to put money above the safety and welfare of children as young as 4 years old?
Originally Posted By GMouse Many people die every year at Disney World. Sadly, the media focuses on crap like this to blow it all out of porportion. My gut feel is that Disney only created a milder version due to declining demand for the intense version. I doubt it had anything to do with the deaths. It would be silly for them to do it in response to the deaths because then they would be almost admitting guilt. I think it's purely a numbers game for Disney, they needed to boost the numbers for the huge investiment they've made. It wasn't anyone's fault, just a freak thing that happened. As sad as it is it could have happened anywhere. I would argue that Rockin' Roller-Coaster is almost as intense. Airplanes taking off are pretty intense too.
Originally Posted By sherrytodd The child did not die because he was four years old. The child died because of a heart defect. A healthy four year old who meets the height restrictions is not going to die on this ride.
Originally Posted By wahooskipper The question is, however, why didn't he die in the car on the way to the park, the tram, other attractions he might have ridden on prior to Mission: Space, etc? Just a tragic coincidence? Maybe. But there have been two tragic coincidences now and multiple lesser illnesses requiring hospital visits. When does it go from being a coincidence to a trend? I have a history in the amusement park business and am generally the first to defend said business. But, I don't know enough about the technology of this ride to say with absolute certainty that it is safe or that it didn't contribute to the deaths of those two people.
Originally Posted By sherrytodd A lot more people die at WDW then people know about. In the past year or two there have been deaths on The Pirates of the Caribbean, Dinosaur, the Typhoon Lagoon wave pool and ToT (I think she is still alive, but the young girl suffered a stroke). Countless people receive medical attention and many are transported to hospital for various ailments. The media has latched on to this one, so it is all anyone is hearing about. Put in the right context and the media could make It's a Small World seem like a death trap.
Originally Posted By Fe Maiden ^^^What's more likely to cause a death? A slow moving boat ride or an intense high speed thrill ride? All of the ones you've mentioned are mere happenstance. This may have also been the case with MS, but I honestly don't think it's unreasonable for the media or us here to latch on to it considering the history of the ride.
Originally Posted By barboy The parents are reprehensible Their decision to allow a 4 year old on a very intense ride plastered with WARNINGS was irresponsible.....I have been on some very intense rides with warning signs at different parks but M:S had by far the most postings---hell, even the pre-boarding video gives guests one last chance to reconsider where Gary Sinese issues a very deliberate and strong warning about the attraction's intensity.
Originally Posted By t1lersm0m <<A girl died in the wave pool at Typhoon Lagoon the past year with an undiagnosed heart condition. That's why I refuse to let my son near water. I don't even let him take a bath. COME ON!! >> I've previously read your examples of deaths in other parks/resorts. It still doesn't change my mind. If I have an undiagnosed medical condition, what is more likely to cause me to get ill, a wave pool or Mission: Space? I think the choice is obvious. You can list all of the deaths again if you want. But it won't change my mind. I'm pretty fortunate because my husband and I are both short, therefore our son is short. He's 8, but he's only 44 or 46 inches. We haven't had the problem of keeping him from rides he's not ready for, his height takes care of that. But as a parent at a Disney park, if my son is tall enough to ride an attraction, I don't feel I should need to say "Hmmm, can this ride potentially harm him?" That is, aside from making him queasy or throw up, can it cause serious illness, or death? That's not a question I want to ask myself on vacation. We all know how intense M:S is because we all spend a lot of time on Disney boards. But if I'm just a casual visitor to the park who has never read a Disney fan site, how should I know that my 4 year old son, who is tall enough to ride, could be seriously injured on a Disney ride? I understand that there are warning signs, apparently a ton of them, on M:S. But a 4 year old most likely isn't going to have high blood pressure, neck or back problems. As far as getting dizzy or throwing up, that sucks, but it's not life threatening. So how am I to know that my child can't handle M:S? I'm not trying to argue. I just thing from the number of people taken to a hospital, and the two people that died, that the ride is too intense.
