Originally Posted By ssWEDguy >> "Most of the world do come here when they need health care so I would still say it's best." That's a joke. Only when they want to pay for stuff other doctor's won't ethically do, but that's for another discussion. << So what really goes on at the Mayo Clinic in Rochester, Minnesota? World-class plastic surgery?
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo But the US is not the only world beating clinics. IVF, Open Heart Surgery, many key procedures were developed in Europe. Japan, Australia, South Africa again have stellar health care provision. There is more to the world than the US. And there are other places in the world that do things better. The egotism of the American psyche is very similar to the UK under Victoria or Germany under Wilhelm. And like those Empires, the ascendancy is slowing. And as an American, it breaks my heart. But the insular sentiments of our countrymen who buy propaganda saddens me more. The ignorance has gotten worse rather than better, and this health care issues demonstrates this to a degree.
Originally Posted By MPierce >> What happens to our unemployment rate when (not if) all our soldiers come home? << The same thing they were doing before they joined the service. Continuing their enlistment continuing a civilian career.. That has been going on for over 200 years. It's not like WWII where you have a mass of drafted men from the military going back into civilian life. >> That's a joke. Only when they want to pay for stuff other doctor's won't ethically do, but that's for another discussion. << Please elaborate you've got my curiosty up. I've heard of people going to Mexico, and Europe for experimental practices, but I've never have heard of large scale unethical practice of medicine here in the USA. I certainly would like to be informed about it.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<And as an American, it breaks my heart. But the insular sentiments of our countrymen who buy propaganda saddens me more. The ignorance has gotten worse rather than better, and this health care issues demonstrates this to a degree.>> Again, I have the feeling I'm going to regret bringing this up ... but it is so true and I'm very tired of it. I don't want to hear talking heads like Sanja 'I worked for the US military and you don't want to know how many of my patients died' Gupta on CNN acting like a businessman instead of a physician or people of his ilk talking on FOX. The problem is very simple. The majority of people in this 'compassionate' nation believe healthcare is a privilege not a right. Think about that. Suck it in. Think about whether you agree or disagree with that. In Europe, you walk into a hospital and they take care of you ... usually quickly and professionally with no one asking for insurance or money. You walk (or worse get carried) into a hospital in the USA and you get nothing without showing a health insurance card and dropping off a Visa for good measure. If you can't pay, you'll get substandard treatment if that (you may get sent elsewhere ... you may die while waiting) if any. And if you self-pay and can't afford it, well, they'll ruin your credit and take your house and everything they can away. It is a SICK insidious BUSINESS. There is no justification for it except the fact people here have been so dumbed down they don't know any better. They hear 'socialized medicine' and they see RED ... they think the government will control their doctors (like it doesn't control everything now anyway) ... they feel like they'll be paying for people who can't pay (like that's such a bad un-American thing, helping those in need) ... and what if your tax money goes for a woman to have an abortion ... or for a gay man to have surgery ... or for a Muslim to get a new kidney ... and your religious beliefs enter the equation ... the government shouldn't spend YOUR tax money on what it wants (God, knows I want my tax dollars spent on destroying Iraq!) So we have WalMart medical care (unless you're wealthy) for a WalMarted nation. SICK ... SICK ... SICK ... Oh, I do hear Disney execs have great healthcare! Now back to your regularly scheduled BAH/pin shack thread!
Originally Posted By DouglasDubh Yeah, the same kind of thing happened to me the other day. I was in the grocery store and wanted some steak. Can you believe the butcher wanted to charge me for it? As if eating is a priviledge and not a right! I can't believe that grocery stores actually want to make a profit on something that everybody needs to survive. Yeah, sure, maybe I could apply for food stamps, and get some food for free, but I bet I'd get inferior food. Shouldn't all food be priced the same? Why should steak be more expensive than hamburger? It's just not right.
Originally Posted By RC Collins >>The majority of people in this 'compassionate' nation believe healthcare is a privilege not a right.<< It certainly isn't a right in the sense of free speech or other rights the Founders recognized as something people naturally had and the government was supposed to protect (not pay for). Free speech, religious expression, etc. - that is something you can do yourself without anybody else being obligated. Getting healthcare from someone else obligates someone else, and thus isn't a right in the same respect. Why should someone else be FORCED to take care of you if you are an adult (if you are a minor, it is your parents' job to take care of you). Medical training takes money. Being around to check your vital signs takes time. Building hospitals takes money. Manufacturing medical equipment takes money. Researching medicinal substances takes money. These things also take expertise, too. Now, if you can perform surgery on yourself or otherwise self-medicate using only things that belong to you, you have that right (marijuana laws are another story). But you have no right to force your neighbor to come over to your place and wheel you over to their place and take care of you, free of charge. Healthcare, like so many other things, should involve voluntary exchanges of goods and services for money or other goods and services. Or, voluntary charity in the form of someone donating their time/expertise. So no, healthcare is NOT a right in the sense you say. You do not have the right to force people richer than you to take care of you. Healthcare costs could be reduced with less fraud, fewer lawsuits, and more competition. But we have some monopolies going on (AMA comes to mind).
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo What about education? By that rationale, isn't it a privilege? What about roads? Justice in a court of law? What about environmental clean up? Or policing and security? C'mon guys, where do you draw the line? Ironically I live in a Social State and run a business that focuses on Social Structures, and yet I feel I have far more rights and liberties than modern America.
Originally Posted By DouglasDubh <C'mon guys, where do you draw the line?> As close to the individual as possible.
Originally Posted By MPierce >> Geez, where are the thread drift police when you need 'em? << It's my fault. I'll concede if we can just get back to discussing WDW.
Originally Posted By bobbelee9 That's ok. I thought I was getting on these boards to talk about WDW, but I've learned so much about Disney and about what's going on in the world from you guys, keep it up.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<What about education? By that rationale, isn't it a privilege? What about roads? Justice in a court of law? What about environmental clean up? Or policing and security? C'mon guys, where do you draw the line? Ironically I live in a Social State and run a business that focuses on Social Structures, and yet I feel I have far more rights and liberties than modern America.>> That's because you do, Dave. While ignorant, apathetic American sheep slept, our president took away our most basic right. The right to a trial. The government can now pick you up like in Nazi Germany and hold you for any reason (if it deems you an 'evildoer') and doesn't have to give you a reason or a lawyer or a trial. The problem is people think the USA is a true democracy, well it isn't. It's run by multi-national corporations and Wall Street. In European democracies, the government is afraid of the people. In the USA, we're afraid of the government. And to my right wing friends, I'd just say that two of the most basic tenets of the Republican Party would be the rights of the individual and less government interference ... yeah, that sounds like the country today. So we're a Walmarted nation. Little surprise that Disney still bills itself as a premium product, while offering far less while as country we say we're so compassionate yet people die every hour because of a lack of healthcare simply because they can't afford it or can't obtain it. Sorry, guys, but this is my hot-button issue. And until you are in that situation or have loved one who are, you simply have no clue how truly wretched our system is ... but let's tell all those ignorant people living in the RED states, who will never leave this country for any reason, how we have things better than any other nation. What a joke. A sad joke on us.
Originally Posted By SpectroWishes321 Wow, one entire page of off topicness. Apparently this happens often?
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo Yep, New Orleans after Hurricane Katrina - real proof of a caring nation!!! :-(
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo "Wow, one entire page of off topicness. Apparently this happens often?" It does in real life does it not? If I'm at a party engaging in conversation with a number of people, it is very common for discussions to drift. I really dislike the boards where the mods force you back on topic. Whereas LP feels much more like a party!
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 ^^Dave, I just asked the mods to remove post 72, while I stand behind every word I wrote I just don't want to get into that kind of debate here and I kinda allowed myself to be sucked in. I'm sure we can talk about when we finally meet -- hopefully soon!
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo Spirit - I met a colleague yesterday originally from Chico California. He studied for his post grads here in the UK and now lives here with his British wife. Amazing how many similar world views we shared, and had fun ripping Fox News. He agreed with me that he was ashamed of the ignorance of the world our fellow countrymen have (though we both still love America and are proud to be american (or at least it's ethos). It was sooooo refreshing!
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo But you are right. We should be waving goodbye to MGM on this thread I suppose. For me, I just hope the Studios improve as a result of new plans. I actually enjoyed the Studios more on our last trip than the time before. But it still feels wanting. That said, I think I'm one of the very few fans of LMA.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 ^^No. The Spirit is quite proud of his beliefs, but I know where this one is going to go and I'd rather avoid it. So I'd rather just say farewell to it and the Disney-MGM Studios ... both the park and our nation have seen much finer days!
