Originally Posted By ssWEDguy All 4 parks also have an 8am to 9am early hour during the week. Wouldn't that be enough? I should think you could use that one hour to get on several of the big rides fairly quickly at a given park. At least one, anyway. Then spend the rest of the day on the more leisurely attractions, or at least compete with every one else in the same line. No?
Originally Posted By vbdad55 <All 4 parks also have an 8am to 9am early hour during the week. Wouldn't that be enough? < every park has xx number of FP's per day, isn't that enough ? same thing one can't have it both ways, doesn't that make sense ? not trying to be mean, just show how the 2 correlate and when was the last time you took a 4 and 7 year old to WDW and told them what was enough...for those there on their first trip and maybe last for a while - that answer would be no.
Originally Posted By vbdad55 <All 4 parks also have an 8am to 9am early hour during the week. Wouldn't that be enough? I should think you could use that one hour to get on several of the big rides fairly quickly at a given park. At least one, anyway. < and how does this differ from the get up early and get a FP argument ? same thing, have to be there early --can;t be OK for one offering yet unfair for the other
Originally Posted By ssWEDguy >> every park has xx number of FP's per day, isn't that enough ? same thing << No it's not. FP as it exists now has two lines to each attraction. With my suggestion there's only one line for each attraction at all hours. During Extra Magic Hours, it's full of former FPers. During Regular hours, that single line is all regular guests. ---------------- Hey, I'd love to continue this, but I've got a resume to update. A phone interview tomorrow morning. Have to get my beauty sleep. And trust me, I need that badly. ----------------
Originally Posted By vbdad55 Fast Pass: get up early to get a FP before they are gone for riding the rides later( although rarely gone for any ride before 3 - 4 PM) - UNFAIR yet...... EMH: get up early to take your 5 year old to EMH because 5 year olds can't stay up until 1 or 2 AM when others are riding the rides -- FAIR what am I missing here to be told isn't that enough and fair in EMH, but yet the same scenario for FP is unfair ? maybe I am just dense, but if someone can help me make balance these two as fair and unfair I will see the light ( even posts can see the light occasionally )
Originally Posted By vbdad55 <During Extra Magic Hours, it's full of former FPers. < was this a formal survey...that seems like quite a leap. and EMH does not include the little ones who will remember what they did and did not ride in their trip... one line or two how is that fair ? and I do not want to see the end to EMH trust me....but I also want to show that EMH by your measuring stick is not fair either.
Originally Posted By ssWEDguy Please don't use "But what about the CHILDREN" arguments with me. Teach the children how to deal with life. Be productive contributers to society. There are enough children in this world that are much worse off than the worst cases we have in this country. Our kids are so much better off, even when they have to wait in line with the other kids. Instead of getting to go to the front of the line with their Wonka Bar passes.
Originally Posted By vbdad55 <Please don't use "But what about the CHILDREN" arguments with me. Teach the children how to deal with life. Be productive contributers to society. < you don;t have to get all huffy - that seems to be the only way people try and settle things here now-- I gave you a real life scenario as I was just there withmy nieces. as for your answer- go ahead an be rud e if you like-- in kind why don't you teach the whiney ADULTS to deal with life then with regards to FP and why they don;t like it.. real mature and every freaking thing you posted for kids goes for spoiled adults who feel entitled also -- I want my fastpass but I have to sleep in... this discussion is over -- grow up
Originally Posted By ssWEDguy Okay, just one more. I'm serious about this "FP in the morning" thing. Maybe if they terminate the current FP, they could extend morning Extra Magic hours from just one day a week per park, to two days a week, maybe even three. And make it available from 7am to 9am instead of 8am to 9am. Would that work?
Originally Posted By ssWEDguy FASTPASS AS IT EXISTS NOW = 2 lines. FASTPASS ONLY DURING EXTRA MAGIC HOUR = 1 line. That's the difference.
Originally Posted By vbdad55 so you didn't like my answers and have to pull out the smart alec attitude...so the adults you are protecting from being cheated of their precious fastpasses in this country don;t have it better than most adults in this world. you seem to have some hostility towards kids with the front of the line Wonka Bar comment...they are people too and should be treated as such. Contrary too your comment all US kids are not coddled spoiled rich kids...many work very hard to succeed in this world... I have worked with underprivileged kids in the inner city school system as a volunteer for 21 years now....you may want to spend some time doing the same before you broadbrush all kids the way you did. My nieces do not have it very well off...lots of reasons why but i won't bore you...and a Wonka bar would be a treat for them....not an every day event....unbelievably smug response...
Originally Posted By vbdad55 <FASTPASS AS IT EXISTS NOW = 2 lines. FASTPASS ONLY DURING EXTRA MAGIC HOUR = 1 line. That's the difference. < EMH from 10 - 1 Am = NO LINE for little kids who can use FP in the morning --that's also a difference ( although I guess they do not count )
Originally Posted By vbdad55 <Okay, just one more. I'm serious about this "FP in the morning" thing. Maybe if they terminate the current FP, they could extend morning Extra Magic hours from just one day a week per park, to two days a week, maybe even three. And make it available from 7am to 9am instead of 8am to 9am. Would that work? < would be 'more' fair yes -- but how is it if I am taking a 5 year old to the parks, it is OK for me to have to get up at 5:30 Am to get ready and to the park to take advantage of, yet for someone who wants a FP this is unfair ? I am still lost on that one..
Originally Posted By CMM1 ssWEDguy: You're not one of those CM's that gets stuck at the "decision point" who has to decide when FP guests enter and when Standby folks enter are you? I can certainly sympathize with anyone in that position who does not like FP. Several times on my last trip to WDW I saw people in the Standby line going nuts at the CM making the decision as to which line to pull from - as far as those people could tell, the decision was being made at a whim and not according to some visible plan and they were hot. Do they give "hazardous duty pay" to those CM's in those spots?
Originally Posted By kpwdwfan CCM1: You bring up a very good point. In another thread I brought up that point because I overheard a castmember say that the ratio for Fast Pass to standby line is 80% to 20% in favor of the fast pass line. Don't know if this ia true or not but I was just at WDW and witnessed this scenario for myself. I was in EPCOT and watched a cast member allow two people from the stand by line and then a large group from Fast Pass. This same situation occurred several times and when it came to my family, they allowed the four of us in and then another large group of Fast Passers. If this scenario is the norm where fast pass is used there's no wonder the standby lines are extremely long.
Originally Posted By ChiMike I don't think EMH should be used as an alternative or replacement comparison to FP. I don't understand what is so hard in saying that going back to pre-FP days is fairer for everyone. It simply is. It seems that the concern shown on this thread for what qualifies as ""fair"" for everyone is influenced by the experience of how easy it is to travel with young kids in the summer. No, what really is the MOST ""fair"" is to have everyone stand in line like they did for the 44 years prior to FP's introduction. First come, first serve. That is what is MOST fair, that is what doesn't discriminate whether you are adult child, male, female, morning person, night owl, etc. FP might be fair under someone’s definition because everyone can access it if they all show up before each other, but I would retort that fair is a concept that is absolute. So, if one is truly concerned for the fairest solution, rather then their own self-interests they would support scrapping the entire system. Someone doesn’t want to stand in lines for 90 minutes with kids in the summer? Well, then, don’t! Come some other time, do some other attraction, stop coming so often, or bite the bullet and wait 90 minutes for an attraction that has been around for 15 or 25 years. It’s opportunity loss in it’s purest form. Nothing can be more Republican, suburban, conservative or Buckleyesque than that. If someone goes during Christmas or Fourth of July with young ones prepare to stand in line. Don't expect to do everything. If using FP works great for you, for dealing with the summer crowds, then wonderful. Nothing evil is transpiring. Not at all. No one is pointing any fingers at people who do this. But, I would hate to see someone believe that because FP works for them that it then makes it intrinsically fair for everyone. The reality of it all is people who take advantage of FP during busy times aren't going to want to go back to the days of slightly shorter standby waits for everyone. They want to take advantage of what Disney offers and skip the line, when they knew they were responsible for coming during a busy season, and let someone else pick up the slack. Again, nothing evil, just a reality that is hard to ignore. It doesn't take much logic to figure out. Everyone should do with that information what they will and have fun at Disney.
Originally Posted By Shooba Jumping in just a *tad* late here. I like fastpass and like the way I can do most of the E-tickets in a given day without a huge wait. I also am quite adamant about being at a park for rope drop. My one concern: what about guests who might choose to spend just an evening or an afternoon at a park? In the old days, you could get into town, head over to the MK, and do a few rides. With fastpass, in a way you are regulated to certain rides. If you get there late on a busy evening, and Splash Mountain has a two-hour standby line and no fastpasses, that ride is essentially "closed to you" (unless you're willing to stand in a loooong line). Getting to park late can essentially decrease its value, in terms of attractions "available". Any thoughts on this? Also, are the lines to get a fastpass particularly long in Orlando? I have "fond" memories of a 45-minute line just to get my Pooh fastpass in TDL.
Originally Posted By danyoung >Someone doesn’t want to stand in lines for 90 minutes with kids in the summer? Well, then, don’t! Come some other time, do some other attraction, stop coming so often, or bite the bullet and wait 90 minutes for an attraction that has been around for 15 or 25 years.< Sure, that'd be the most "fair", just like it's been for years. But I wouldn't be happy with it that way, as obviously I'm very happy using FP to gain an advantage. And yes, I know that for every FP used, someone else has to stand in a slower moving line (not LONGER, but slower). I'm comfortable with taking advantage of this, as (wait for it - here comes the FAIR thing again!) the benefit that I'm using is openly available to all. Under the old system, the only way I'd see the super popular rides like Splash was to do them first thing in the morning - no way I'm waiting in a 90 minute line. There were sometimes a couple of years between rides on a ride that I really do like. Now I have the option to FP and do it later, and not blow 90 minutes standing in line. I like the option, and I'm not willing to give it up.
Originally Posted By ChiMike >>My one concern: what about guests who might choose to spend just an evening or an afternoon at a park? In the old days, you could get into town, head over to the MK, and do a few rides. With fastpass, in a way you are regulated to certain rides. If you get there late on a busy evening, and Splash Mountain has a two-hour standby line and no fastpasses, that ride is essentially "closed to you" (unless you're willing to stand in a loooong line). Getting to park late can essentially decrease its value, in terms of attractions "available". Any thoughts on this?<< Yes. That you are exactly right with your observation/point. Some on this thread would argue that it's too bad for those people, that since those people could have choosen to arrive in Orlando or to WDW earlier, that the system is still fair. I have not agreed or disagreed with that idea because to me it is irrlevant (not your point, but the point on about showing up early=fair). To me it's an issue of people not realizing that capacity is not improved, efficiency is not improved, that it is some gaining and others losing. A less ideal scenario in terms of fairness then everyone showing up and waiting first-come first-serve. Shooba, I don't disagree with your point at all. I think it is bad courtesy and bad show (2 of the 4 keys) to do that to late arriving guests. Since it doesn't effect the other 2 keys of safety and efficiency then it's not really good for Disney's own standards. Standards that made them the leader in this business. And nothing at Orlando rivals the Hunny Hunt FP situation.
Originally Posted By danyoung >Some on this thread would argue that it's too bad for those people, that since those people could have choosen to arrive in Orlando or to WDW earlier, that the system is still fair.< This is absolutely no different than the average busy day that has Splash at a 2 hour wait towards the end of the day. FP has no effect on this. It was a 2 hour line before FP, and it'll be a 2 hour slower moving line with FP.
