Fast Pass a Thing of the Past?

Originally Posted By ssWEDguy

You guys all make good points. Seriously.

However, I stick by my statements.

If an attraction is running out of FP's on any given day, then it should be adjusted so that any single individual can only enjoy that attraction via FP ONCE that day.

And/or, let me make a reservation for tomorrow.

Selah.

 

Originally Posted By ssWEDguy

Why should making a reservation for tomorrow be any more a problem than making my reservation for today? You guys are all so good at working the FP system, you'd be able to figure it out with ease, I'm sure.

 

Originally Posted By vbdad55

Oh I'd have no problem with it at all...

 

Originally Posted By TexasTeaIII

FP needs to go.

But I do not buy the fact that it is unfaily applied(except for the AAA example). It is availble to all who want it. Nor is it too complicated to understand. I see very young operate those machines. It is so easy.

 

Originally Posted By CMM1

One sees a good example of how FP works in Epcot - there are only a few rides that need them (TT, Space and Soarin).

You can pretty much do all three in a day via FP and then see the other attractions between those FP ones.

Where FP doesn't work well is where there are a bunch of attractions with them which leaves you with nowhere to go between the FP times - Disneyland folks figured that out and removed some attractions from the system for that reason.

At some point, there is still the spectre of some kind of "privileged" status that can be bought but Disney certainly hasn't gone that route yet, except for perhaps that AAA deal at DLR.

 

Originally Posted By danyoung

>Disneyland folks figured that out and removed some attractions from the system for that reason.<

I'm not sure that was the reason so much as realizing that there was just no need for FP on a people-eating attraction like Pirates or the Haunted Mansion.

 

Originally Posted By TDLFAN

>>Seriously, there's nothing unfair with a system that has a limited inventory and runs out on a busy day.<<

That is probably the stupidest comment ever made, and worst.. he believes it too!!!

 

Originally Posted By TDLFAN

But getting back to FP... One of these days, Disney's management will realize how much they are spending on the system (the electricity is takes to operate and maintenance costs to keep those machines from breaking so repeatedly, the manpower it takes to man the distribution areas and the dual lines in every FP ride, the expense of filling the machines with paper and ink, and printing the attraction specific logos on each each roll of paper loaded in every machine... Then, Disney will see the need to kill FP on cost alone, or else...make it a "PAY FOR" option to their "Magic their Way" ticket structure.

Personally I would deviate the expense of running FP to improving rides, or adding staff where it truly is needed: custodial.

 

Originally Posted By danyoung

>That is probably the stupidest comment ever made, and worst.. he believes it too!!!<

Yes, I do believe it. And can you be any more of a jerk?

 

Originally Posted By ssWEDguy

Let's try this from one single angle.

>> If an attraction is running out of FP's on any given day, then it should be adjusted so that any single individual can only enjoy that attraction via FP ONCE that day. <<

What is wrong with this? Seems fair to me.

The FP system already has rules and limits. That's sensible. So's this.

 

Originally Posted By CMM1

A few observations regarding FP from recent trip (last week) to WDW:

1. FP seems to be a very prominant part of WDW's advertising and park guides - it's unique and it offers a bit of a guarentee that even on a very busy day that a guest will be able to get on a couple of the attractions with the longest lines without waiting - hard to see them giving up that "perk" to WDW guests.

2. I don't think anybody wants to be the CM who is placed at the confluence of the Standby, Single Rider and FP Return lines at any attraction - who wants to explain to those guests waiting for an hour or more why they should wait while countless others are allowed into the attraction ahead of them? At Epcot's Test Track, the situation is almost criminal in that FP and Single rider lines go through the "checkpoint" at warp speed and standby guests move at a snail's pace through what appears to be a very short line inside the TT queue area. Several times saw Standby guests almost ready to assault CM tasked with shuttling guests from all three queues into preshow area - sure, you can try to explain all you want about how FP works but that doesn't help with someone who has been waiting for some 90 minutes watching hoards of others go by at the seeming whim of the CM.

3. Single rider lines - I suppose I can see why you would have this on something like Test Track where the seating configuration is so strange (3 persons across) - do you break up a family of 4 into two pairs or go 3/1 in two rows? I saw several instances where pairs of guests from the single rider line road together simply because a group of 4 went 3/1. But is that fair to a group of 2 that has been waiting for 90 minutes in the standby line? Seems like more effort could be made to seat guests from the standby line first and then, as a last resort, let in guests from the single rider line. At a minimum, keep that single rider line away from the others, skip the attraction preshow and just shuttle them in when really necessary as opposed to running the single rider line like a "faster" standby.

4. It's interesting that right now WDW is offering promotional rates including free dining for WDW hotel guests - so it seems that WDW folks feel that a free food option for a perk is more valuable than any FP enhancements.

5. At some point, one can't help but think that FP might be used as a kind of perk to get guests to stay at more expensive hotel properties - something like "Moderate hotel guests can hold up to 2 FPs at one time, Premium hotel guests can hold up to 3, etc." - if hotel revenue is the real moneymaker at WDW, why not try to incentivize guests to stay in the more expensive properties?

 

Originally Posted By vbdad55

<At some point, one can't help but think that FP might be used as a kind of perk to get guests to stay at more expensive hotel properties - something like "Moderate hotel guests can hold up to 2 FPs at one time, Premium hotel guests can hold up to 3, etc." - if hotel revenue is the real moneymaker at WDW, why not try to incentivize guests to stay in the more expensive properties<

until that day comes by all measureable standards I agree with Dan it is a 'fair' system as it excludes no one excep tby their own choice and control. Those who do not want to get up early, can;t get their early for some other reason, have a fear of machines that dispense tickets or whatever the chant is, it is still an equal opportunity system when the gates open...and have yet to see one argument from a quantitative methods analysis standpoint that shows differently. If you don't like it - fine - that is an opinion, not a fact.

 

Originally Posted By vbdad55

I don't like ToT - that's my opinion, but that opinion does not change the fact that ToT is an attraction and that people ride it.

 

Originally Posted By ssWEDguy

>> incentivize <<

Wow. Now THERE's a word I've got to use in some future project pitch.

 

Originally Posted By ssWEDguy

>> and have yet to see one argument from a quantitative methods analysis standpoint that shows differently <<

This doesn't qualify for the quantitative analysis that you're suggesting. But read anyway.

(1) People who arrive at rope drop get something of an "extra bennie" over people who don't get there that early. They can get a FastPass for a popular attraction first thing in the morning, AND then simply ride on the ride right away via the still-short standby line. Since the Standby line hasn't gotten long yet.

Two rides for the price of one. Not "unfair" as such, but an extra bennie that late arrivers don't get.

(2) When the FP's are gone on any given day, they're gone. And some people may have gotten more than one FP for that attraction that day already. And I got none.

But I can't get a FP for tomorrow morning. Why not?

If I got one for tomorrow morning, it would at least put me on an equal footing with the early arriver the next morning.

(3) And repeating one more time -- if an attraction is showing a track record of running out of FP's for a given day, then at least limit the number of FP's for that attraction for any given ticket holder to ONE that day.

Not hard to do. The computers can handle this.

Please tell me why at least this isn't a "fair" thing to do. The only thing I can think of is that it isn't the way it works now.

 

Originally Posted By CMM1

I don't think "equal footing" is a concern - clearly WDW Resort Guests have privileges greater than non-WDW Resort Guests and Disney makes no bones about advertising the perks of staying on the WDW Resort Property. WDW Resort Guests get both Early Morning and Evening "Magic Hours" at selected parks for any given week and non-Disney Resort Guests do not get those privileges.

As for FP's carrying over into the next day, where do you draw the line? If it is really busy at Test Track, for instance, what would you do if the next available FP return time on FP tickets was "next Tuesday"? Clearly, Disney has drawn the line at FP's being a "single day" entitlement and that pretty much makes sense.

Suffice it to say that the system is what it is now and Disney folks can pretty much do whatever they want to do with the system at their discretion or whim - I certainly feel like I benefited from the FP system on this last trip, using FPs for Test Track, Soarin, Splash Mountain, Expedition Everest, Kali River and Space Mountain.

 

Originally Posted By TDLFAN

>>And can you be any more of a jerk?<<

Yes, I could but the boards won't let me.

 

Originally Posted By danyoung

^^ I completely believe that.

 

Originally Posted By danyoung

>Not "unfair" as such, but an extra bennie that late arrivers don't get.<

But why should the system need to be equally accessable to everyone who arrives at every part of every day? There are many park benefits to those who get there at rope drop, just like there are benefits to those who stay till the last minutes of evening EMH tick off the clock. As long as everyone has an opportunity to take advantage of the benefit, then the benefit is fair.

And to go back and expand on a point that I was too ticked off at 3am this morning to get into - I said:

>Seriously, there's nothing unfair with a system that has a limited inventory and runs out on a busy day.<

I can't begin to see what TDLFAN has against this statement, other than that it's coming from me, and he has some axe to grind (maybe he secretly wants me???). But to clarify by example, is it unfair when you go to a CD store and the hot new CD that you're dying to buy is out of stock? Is it unfair when you show up at a concert hall without a ticket, looking to get in to see the show, only to find out that they've been sold out for weeks? Nothing at all unfair about any of that. By the same token, as long as everyone has the same access to FP's, there's nothing unfair about it when they run out in the afternoon. It's sad for the family who now has to stand in a 90 minute line. But my point was that there were plenty of 90 minute lines before FP. The solution then is the same as now - get up earlier and beat the rush.

 

Originally Posted By vbdad55

>> and have yet to see one argument from a quantitative methods analysis standpoint that shows differently <<

This doesn't qualify for the quantitative analysis that you're suggesting. But read anyway.

" as I said still no quantitative analysis that would make anything unfair.."

(1) People who arrive at rope drop get something of an "extra bennie" over people who don't get there that early. They can get a FastPass for a popular attraction first thing in the morning, AND then simply ride on the ride right away via the still-short standby line. Since the Standby line hasn't gotten long yet.

Two rides for the price of one. Not "unfair" as such, but an extra bennie that late arrivers don't get.

" still an equal oppotrunity that one has a choice over...still fair. Those who arrive at Wirgley field and have bleacher seats, if you want to sit in the front row but arrive 10 minutes before the game, you will be in the top row -- fair - yes ! ......no difference"

(2) When the FP's are gone on any given day, they're gone. And some people may have gotten more than one FP for that attraction that day already. And I got none.

But I can't get a FP for tomorrow morning. Why not?

If I got one for tomorrow morning, it would at least put me on an equal footing with the early arriver the next morning.

" different day of attendance...so it is not the same thing...as the machine requires proof you are admitted to the park. Just because you have media for tomorrow doesn't mean you will enter the park, so you are not part of the attendance - yet "

(3) And repeating one more time -- if an attraction is showing a track record of running out of FP's for a given day, then at least limit the number of FP's for that attraction for any given ticket holder to ONE that day.

" I have no issue with a limit , but one is not the right number by any stretch..maybe one per attraction yes "

Not hard to do. The computers can handle this.

Please tell me why at least this isn't a "fair" thing to do. The only thing I can think of is that it isn't the way it works now.

" if the limit was one per attraction I would have no problem...but again, one cannot quantify the current system as unfair, it doesn;t hold up to anything other than emotional analysis...not scientific."