Originally Posted By ssWEDguy >> But to clarify by example, is it unfair when you go to a CD store and the hot new CD that you're dying to buy is out of stock? << Yes, it is unfair if they were giving the CD's away, and the early arrivers helped themselves to multiple copies. Seems to me one free CD per person would be more fair.
Originally Posted By ssWEDguy >> The solution then is the same as now - get up earlier and beat the rush. << Ah -- now I understand.
Originally Posted By ssWEDguy >> if the limit was one per attraction I would have no problem... << Thank you, vbdad55. That makes 2 of us so far.
Originally Posted By danyoung I guess I'd have to agree that one per attraction per day wouldn't be a problem. But then I'm not sure how much it would help, as I can't see that people getting multiple FP's on the same attraction in any given day would be that frequent. I know I don't do it that way - I spread the FP's around.
Originally Posted By vbdad55 <But then I'm not sure how much it would help, as I can't see that people getting multiple FP's on the same attraction in any given day would be that frequent. I know I don't do it that way - I spread the FP's around. < nor do I but I figured it would placate the anti fastpass sentiment...I havenever gotten a FP for the same ride in the same day...I guess I like more variety than that....and my guess is most others don't also...most FP users use the system to maximize their time, not horder one ride to themselves..
Originally Posted By TDLFAN >>(maybe he secretly wants me???).<< Want you to what??? Disappear? Stop being a Pollyanna? Loose weight? Because I'd certainly hook up with a tree if you and I were the last men standing on Earth. I am not into Krisco.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 I think I'd pay to watch TDLFAN and Danny get together at the (losing more Magic by the day) Kingdom.
Originally Posted By TDLFAN I would love to get together, but can he keep up with me on his motor scooter??
Originally Posted By ghosthost2001 From what I have heard in my area in discussion with management and imagineering, by this time next year... NO more fast pass.
Originally Posted By danyoung >I think I'd pay to watch TDLFAN and Danny get together at the (losing more Magic by the day) Kingdom.< You know me - I love a good discussion. But I won't be going out of my way to meet up with a small minded, angry, bitter person who apparantly judges people by their appearance and not by their words and ideas.
Originally Posted By CMM1 ghost: Interesting - so that would mean that if one was truly concerned about shorter lines that they would want to stay at a WDW resort and take advantage of the "Magic Hours" in the morning and evening when offered.
Originally Posted By vbdad55 Is it just me or am I just imagining remebering 90 min + lines ( with early entry perks - and much later hours) - in the late 80's and early 90's ? Everyone acts like FP created these lines....there were horrid lines before FP also...let's not pretend this is only a FP issue here okay ?
Originally Posted By ChiMike Dan, you responded to one of my comments with: >>I'm not sure that was the reason so much as realizing that there was just no need for FP on a people-eating attraction like Pirates or the Haunted Mansion.<< And that's true. But there are much deeper issues for the systematic removal of FP at DL. Indy is having it's FP removed. Star Tours & Pooh's FP was removed not for capacity concerns but that of popularity and cost justification. Subs will reopen with FP because there ISNT ENOUGH capacity which is the exact opposite of POTC or HM. See where I am going? Greg and co. at least realize as I have for years that it is a big ponzi scheme. It's bad for attractions with too much capacity. It's bad for attractions without enough capacity. It's bad for attractions that are not popular enough, and some in operations would tell you that it is a nightmare for attractions that are too popular. At least AAA will no longer be able to offer the enhanced FP. That's one more victory for those who think FP is a badly run system. Now if we can get those return times enforced.
Originally Posted By vbdad55 <Now if we can get those return times enforced.< although I do not agree with the premise that FP is bad for all the reasons I have stated previously -- I do agree that if you miss your time - you miss your time. Maybe they want to take tha return to be a slightly bigger window ( not much) but then enforce it. If someone returns at 6 Pm with a Noon FP - the answer is no.
Originally Posted By ChiMike TDLFAN: >>One of these days, Disney's management will realize how much they are spending on the system ... Then, Disney will ... ...make it a "PAY FOR" option to their "Magic their Way" ticket structure.<< Bingo. >>ersonally I would deviate the expense of running FP to improving rides, or adding staff where it truly is needed: custodial.<< Talk about common sense, eh? Why I giggle when people suggest it is so much more difficult to run a Disney park nowadays than in the 50's or 60's. Duh. Maybe it's not any harder, maybe it's an issue of having incompetent priorities.
Originally Posted By vbdad55 <>>One of these days, Disney's management will realize how much they are spending on the system ... Then, Disney will ... ...make it a "PAY FOR" option to their "Magic their Way" ticket structure.<< Bingo. < If they ever did then I would have a different opinion overall-- but since FP has been around for how long already, aren;t we jumping the gun here a bit ? until then this is not an issue...so why make it one ?
Originally Posted By ChiMike >>until that day comes by all measureable standards I agree with Dan it is a 'fair' system as it excludes no one excep tby their own choice and control.<< No offense VBDAD, but I do believe that it will be a bigger issue than simply changing your mind on the 'fairness' of it all. It's easy for many people to sit back and lecture the rest of us on how fair it is when you benefit from it. But just wait until IT IS offered in a more advantageous perk for those in an all inclusive WDTC package. Then you will hear screams of bloody murder from the DVC crowd. As they demand they get some sort of Member benefit equal to what WDTC offers. Then we will see many folks change their tune in regards to how ====fair==== FP is. As you, yourself said. No reason to argue against something that meshes with one's own preferences. And I use FP, but I'll be the first to call-out the slippery slope type dimensions of it. I stood in line for Space Mountain for hour+ times in 1979, and I have no problem doing it 27 years later, even for the same experience. But I use FP because I'm not going to stand in a line that is longer than it should be in relation to number of bodies. As I said I have no problem going back to the old way. The thing though is that most guests have been conditioned in thinking a day at Disney with FP is the norm. I don't know how many people would be willing to go back to standing in 35 min. lines for BTMR. Reading your previous posts I certainly think you wouldn't want to go back to pre-'99, well maybe not until DVC owners can't take advantage of travel co. perks. >>Those who do not want to get up early, can;t get their early for some other reason, have a fear of machines that dispense tickets or whatever the chant is, it is still an equal opportunity system when the gates open...and have yet to see one argument from a quantitative methods analysis standpoint that shows differently. If you don't like it - fine - that is an opinion, not a fact.<< You can fling out phrases like quantitative methods of analysis but to this day you have never refuted my often repeated point that someone, somewhere is waiting longer each time you breeze onto an attraction. It's a zero-sum system. Someone's gain is someone else’s loss. To me that is enough to say that the system is not completely fair. My argument has been that everyone standing in standby is MORE FAIR. No one has yet to prove that contention wrong with any sort of analysis. Add that to the fact that most CMs hate it and that it slightly reduces efficiency, I can't believe that anyone who is intellectually honest would believe this to be a great system for Disney and it's guests. Disney cut it ties with the system even before Paul left when they quickly realized that the capital justification for creating it was invalid. That it did not increase merchandise and food sales. Not that everyone outside of Burbank and Orlando were telling them this. The only reason the system still exists is because Disney is fully-aware how integrated it has become for Disney's repeat visitors. You can't take someone who has ridden Space Mountain for 15 years on 5-7 min waits and now tell them to ride (they have already experienced for 15 years) with a 40 min wait for it. No longer will FP be put on every new attraction (DL Subs, MK Monsters, Epcot's Seas) which is a different strategy than what was employed in 2003 & 2004. For WDW, you will see FP removed from a few more attractions that should have never had it in the first place like Land and Maelstrom. On top of that I believe that if WDW continues to offer FP on the new, big-budget, marquee attractions you will see them go down the road of special perks for those on the packages. VBDad, I’m sure you disagree with me as much as I do you on this one issue. I just wanted to toss in that I think on mostly every other single issue you are pretty much spot on.
Originally Posted By ChiMike >>As long as everyone has an opportunity to take advantage of the benefit, then the benefit is fair.<< It's not that simplistic. But I've been down this road. My larger problem with FP is that it is bad for Disney. Thus, down the road through it will have been bad for the guest in what Disney didn't do or even did to make up for supporting FP. To fill the gap.
Originally Posted By ChiMike >>But to clarify by example, is it unfair when you go to a CD store and the hot new CD that you're dying to buy is out of stock? Is it unfair when you show up at a concert hall without a ticket, looking to get in to see the show, only to find out that they've been sold out for weeks? Nothing at all unfair about any of that.<< Those are individual offerings that each have a specific price attached to each item. The market, the supply & demand principles come into play. A really bad example, imo, considering we are talking about a setting where there are unlimited daily visits available based on a flat fee paid upfront. Those unlimited daily visits are given priority based on a free ticket system. >>It's sad for the family who now has to stand in a 90 minute line. But my point was that there were plenty of 90 minute lines before FP.<< What you are missing here is that the line wouldn't be 90 minutes w/o FP. Say for Space Mountain again, the crowd size would have made a 90 min line with FP a 60 min line without FP. Another point which has never been disputed. I don't criticize anyone for using FP. It seems to me that some people (in general, not VBDAD and Danyoung) defend FP because they feel they have to defend their participation with it. I use FP. But I have a problem when reality is either ignored or marginalized because of personal preference. I said I was a self-hating FP user. Hate is a strong word, but that is the point. I use FP because not using it would accomplish nothing. It would not make the system go away any faster. But I use FP knowing full well what it is. Just as I would use a bathroom at MK when it is dirty and disgusting.
