Originally Posted By CMM1 Would not the FP system work a bit better if Disney placed "ride boards" in key locations throughout the park to help guests decide when and where to exercize their FP privileges and when to ride standby? For instance, in the MK park put a ride board listing wait times over by Splash Mt/BTMRR, another one over by Dumbo and another one over by Space Mt/TTA - at least then guests would be able to decide when to FP and when to perhaps simply go to another area and do standby rides. Or, in this day and age of wireless, how about a number you can dial to get park waiting times/FP return times downloaded to your cell phone?
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 ^^Heck ... when did a day at a magical Disney theme park become something that had tobe planned down to the minutest detail? What's next? Planned bathroom breaks? Downloading return times to your cell phone or Blackberrys? ... Ridiculous. Not you, CMM1, just the idea. I realize the whole Destination Disney (i.e. The Mouse Knows All About You!) plan is to blame for so much. But you're on vacation, folks. Where's the spontaneity? We've all pretty much agreed that almost no one visits WDW just for a day (hence the death of my 'Is WDW Worth $67 a Day?' thread). Why must people sit at computers weeks, months and YEARS in advance and plan compulsively? I am not looking to fight with anyone as the Spirit is a gentle soul, but that just sounds like obsessive mental illness to me. Things like FP, free dining programs offered to fill rooms while making you feel like your on a Carnival Cruise, closing parks earlier for special events that cost extra etc ... they all kill a bit of what made WDW, WDW. OK, that's my dime's worth. You kids can go back to fighting. I need to pack ... going to some little awards shindig in LA this weekend followed by a visit to Walt's original park ... and that DCA place too.
Originally Posted By vbdad55 <Others are arguing that "Hey -- If you're smart you can figure it out and you can get yours too." Meaning, things are somehow "fair" because everyone has an equal right to join the side that gets the gain, and contribute to someone ELSE's pain? you mean contribute to a pain ( waiting in line at an amusement park for a ride) that already existed before FP -- I don't understand this pain deal.. there were 90 minute lines before - there are 90 minute rides now -- the argument makes it sound like we condemned someone to the gallows... and it is not 'somehow' fair - that is a misquote of the discussion -- it is inherently fair and that has already been shown, it is an equal opportunity and NOTHING has been shown to say it isn't. It is more of an equal opportunity than being able to afford to even go to WDW...but we'll overlook that because of the pain and suffering in those lines... Cibs single game tickets go on sale on line in February - they are first come- first serve - just like FP - for those who get into the waiting room and get tickets - they had the same chance as everyonbe else on line. For those who don;t want to get on line at 8 AM - well then their pain and suffering begins also because they must then go to a broker...everyone has an equal chance when they are made available...for those without a computer you can use a phone... tell me how this is any different -- the fact that someone does not LIKE first come - first served is a separate issue from FAIR...so please stop misquoting the other statements.. and please explain how first come- first served is not fair -- and without any red herring about a million peole showing up at one time, or why can;t I get a fast pass for tomorrow. it is 7:00 AM on Tuesday morning and you are at WDW-- explain to me how someone is cheating you out of an oppotunity for a FP for Space Mountain, and doing so by being UNFAIR. You are both in your hotel,both have hopper tickets and both plan on going to the MK -- explain the unfairness of the FP system at this point in time. please jut answer me that sine you don;t like any of my definitions - use the dictionary one un·fair ( P ) Pronunciation Key (n-fâr) adj. un·fair·er, un·fair·est 1. Not just or evenhanded; biased 2. Contrary to laws or conventions, especially in commerce; unethical
Originally Posted By vbdad55 <Until, like Mr. Ponzi planned, the poor guys at the tail end of the scheme get stuck holding the bag< the last guy to the concert gets the seat in back, the last person on the bus sits in the remaining seat or stands, the last person to the beach gets the worst chair location -- take your pick -- again this is life, it is not unfair as each had the opportunity to get there earlier, and chose not to....this is a free society, not a communist regime where everyone gets the same thing...but we all have the saem opportunity,
Originally Posted By vbdad55 <But you're on vacation, folks. Where's the spontaneity? We've all pretty much agreed that almost no one visits WDW just for a day (hence the death of my 'Is WDW Worth $67 a Day?' thread). Why must people sit at computers weeks, months and YEARS in advance and plan compulsively?< simple answer Spirit -- you live there and spontaneously can go anytime you would like. I live 1200 miles away and withmy job have a difficult time getting blocks of time to get away to WDW. My kids ( and I ) look forward to maximizing our vacation time at WDW because we DO NOT have the same opportunity as you....we get one shot, then its wait until next year. I don;t get to get up on any Saturdat and decide- he I'm goin to WDW today to see those few attractions I missed last week, that is not an option. ssWED guy-- should I whine UNFAIR on this also ? I only have a shot at fastpass about 7 days a year --UNFAIR UNFAIR !!! No I make the choice as to where I live so I play the cards that are dealt me...that's still fair. People who live in and around Orlando have 365 days a year to potentially get FP's, I have 7 - 10, is that unfair. By the math being portrayed here, yes it wouldbe, but I don't view it that way because if I wanted that opportunity then I should move to Orlando...( no different than getting my backside up when I am there and getting a FP if I want one ) ....if I choose to get to the park later, or go to another park first- and the FP's are gone at 4 PM - then so be it...it was still fair tome, I made a different choice. I don't run around crying foul... No, I use the tools that are there to even the playing field for me...the same tools everyone else has...so I am supposed to feel bad about that ? Sorry.
Originally Posted By vbdad55 <OK, that's my dime's worth. You kids can go back to fighting. I need to pack ... going to some little awards shindig in LA this weekend followed by a visit to Walt's original park ... and that DCA place too< Have a great trip Spirit.....stay away from those evil FP machines
Originally Posted By CMM1 Spirit: I agree pretty much with you in principal but when you arrive at Space Mt or Splash Mt or Test Track and find a 90 minute standby line, FP looks like a pretty good option (I don't want to get into the "discussion" about how FP might contribute to longer standby lines). So if a little planning helps out, why not? BTW, if you are new to the original Disneyland, you will be amazed at how much smaller it is than the other "newer" parks.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<simple answer Spirit -- you live there and spontaneously can go anytime you would like.>> Not quite. I live a few hundred miles away and haven't made a spur-of-the-moment visit in years. It's not that easy. Now, if I lived in O-Town, perhaps it would be different but I don't. <<I live 1200 miles away and withmy job have a difficult time getting blocks of time to get away to WDW. My kids ( and I ) look forward to maximizing our vacation time at WDW because we DO NOT have the same opportunity as you....we get one shot, then its wait until next year. I don;t get to get up on any Saturdat and decide- he I'm goin to WDW today to see those few attractions I missed last week, that is not an option.>> I understand that, BUT still you ARE a WDW regular. You go at least once a year, right? How much is truly new from year-to-year anymore? This year you actually had ONE new major attraction in Everest. So, my princess-wannabe pal, I ask how many times do you have to ride Space Mountain or Test Track or Dinosaur for your trip to feel 'complete?' If you went to WDW and (heaven forbid) missed one of the parks or only spent a half -day in one would that ruin it for you? I'm really interested because you are a lot closer to the rule here, in that you are a regular visitor but not a local. I spent a week at WDW in July and didn't set foot in my least favorite park (Studios) or my No. 2 (DAK). Spent a little time at the MK. And a lot at Epcot and the resorts. It was a great and relaxing vacation. I understand a first-timer wanting to maximize their time. I understand someone who may not be back for many years. But for a regular, why is there a rush to see everything when you've already seen everything many times before? That's why, even though I don't like FP and feel it has dumbed the experience down, it doesn't phase me at all. I can go a year or more without doing certain attractions or parks and not feel I'm missing anything. I'm just interested in why regulars would rather be up at the crack of dawn on vacation to stand in line for something they've done so many times when WDW offers so many recreational, dining and other activities.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<Have a great trip Spirit.....stay away from those evil FP machines >> So long as my tux still fits, it'll be a great trip ;-) And I never said FP was evil ...but my opinion of it has gone down considerably since the summer of 99 when it was tested at DAK.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<Spirit: I agree pretty much with you in principal but when you arrive at Space Mt or Splash Mt or Test Track and find a 90 minute standby line, FP looks like a pretty good option (I don't want to get into the "discussion" about how FP might contribute to longer standby lines).>> Don't disagree with that. But I don't have to plan to know if I show up at Splash Mountain before closing it'll be a walk-on (or if I use the single riders line at DL, it will ALWAYS be a walk-on). <<So if a little planning helps out, why not?>> There's big difference between a little planning and the compulsive activites that many guests now are forced to do because of FP, Dining Plan, EMH's instead of long hours for all etc ... <<BTW, if you are new to the original Disneyland, you will be amazed at how much smaller it is than the other "newer" parks.>> Nope. I'm an APer at DL as well as WDW and DLP (with TDL coming in '07). It is by far my favorite Disney park because it really is where the magic began! But I am amazed at how many attractions are tucked into such a small area vs. the MK where vast stretches of land are empty and wasted.
Originally Posted By vbdad55 < So, my princess-wannabe pal, I ask how many times do you have to ride Space Mountain or Test Track or Dinosaur for your trip to feel 'complete?' < see that's just the point though, I don't ride every thing every year... the commando days are gone, but there are times I just have the urge to ride a certain attraction - who knows why...( and btw it's when I use FP most as it locks me in ) -- We no longer are there at rope drop - more like 10 AM - ( yet I still manage to get a FP for the few things I really want - imagine that ) - and we are back at the resot by 2:00 - then swim- relax - then back to the parks for say a 6 pm dinner and the rest of the evening. the last trip was different as I took my nieces and they have never been there-- so we did much more -- and FP really helped as they are 4 & 7 and EMH late night at MK really not for kids that age-- they are sleepy by 9 and back to the resort we would go.... so for me it's more preference of ensuring I can ride what I want without a 90 minute wait...I just see no harm in that... ( sorry I forgot you were not 'that' close - but still day trip distance - but you get my drift on those here who live there and if they wake up and say, I need a dose of Pirates and HM- they can have it-- I can't for 6 mos - 1 yr. make sense ?
Originally Posted By vbdad55 see- I;ve become one of those who get the FP for GTMRR -- ride Splash - hit the shop to see what's new - maybe grab an ice cream and relax- then go back to ride the ride I wanted....
Originally Posted By ssWEDguy I give up. I'm tired of this whole argument. Any discussion we have isn't going to change things anyway. It's like arguing with a post. NOTE -- I'm a CM. I don't need to use FP, and I don't. My whole purpose in making a case for greater FP fairness is for what I perceive to be a right thing for the average guest. I don't think it's a right thing for Standby lines to slow down to let a flow of FPer's through, no matter how equal the access is to the FPasses. Maybe instead of arguing about tuning the dang thing it should just be junked. Terminate the whole thing and instead tell people that If you want priveleged access, stay on property and make use of the Extra Magic Hours. How simple is that? But during regular park hours, KILL FP as it exists today.
Originally Posted By ssWEDguy >> If you want priveleged access, stay on property and make use of the Extra Magic Hours. How simple is that? But during regular park hours, KILL FP as it exists today. << You know what? -- Now that I've written that and thought about it some more, I like it even more. All Extra Magic Hours are attended by effectively only FP type folks. But there's only one line for each attraction. Full of nothing but FPer's. During regular park hours, again there is only one line. But now it's occupied by all regular park guests. Pull all those FP machines out. Has this idea been mentioned in another part of the FP discussion thread and I just missed it?
Originally Posted By ssWEDguy I don't know how AP's or DVC's work. Do they get access to Extra Magic hours now or not? If not, would it work if they did?
Originally Posted By vbdad55 <If you want priveleged access, stay on property and make use of the Extra Magic Hours. How simple is that? < here's where I have the problem with that - the 3 hour EMH are at night...I just explained I hadmy nieces with me - age 4 & 7 who had never been to WDW before and who knows when they'll get to go again. EMH from 10 - 1 AM or 11 to 2 Am means nothing for them.. so let's talk unfair -- how many kids that age can possibly stay up and use those hours. I myself like them when it's me and my older kids, but what about families with younger kids like my nieces. That offering is more unfair in my opinion than FP..... so yes, for you and I it is simple...for parents of younger kids not so simple...the last thing I want to see if some parent dragging little sally around at 1 AM to get on a ride she could have gotten a FP for earlier. are they not also the average guest ? just me here ( you know, the post ) asking...
Originally Posted By ssWEDguy PS. If Disney sees the light and this becomes their way out of their FP dilemna, then I want 10%.
Originally Posted By vbdad55 <But during regular park hours, KILL FP as it exists today. << You know what? -- Now that I've written that and thought about it some more, I like it even more. All Extra Magic Hours are attended by effectively only FP type folks. But there's only one line for each attraction. Full of nothing but FPer's. < so kids don't use FP ? So the older people who can stay up late get 12 hours to wait in long lines for rides ( w/o FP) and the kids can make maybe 8 --yeah, that seems much fairer than FP.
Originally Posted By vbdad55 <I don't know how AP's or DVC's work. Do they get access to Extra Magic hours now or not? If not, would it work if they did?< my understanding is that it is people staying on the grounds that get access -- so yes DVC members would get it, but only AP's who were staying on the grounds ( someone can help me with the AP side of this if I am wrong) --
Originally Posted By vbdad55 btw sswedguy -- (the arguing with a post comment aside ) I believe you are really trying to get to what seems like a fair solution to you, but my example of what happens to kids vs adults with EMH shows that no program allows 24 x 7 , 365 day a year all time access ....it just doesn't work. whereas a kid can get a FP during the day as equitably as an adult - try and tell a 5 year old that "hey the lines are short at 1AM in EMH " -- that doesn't work either. How is that any different than the person who arrives at 4 PM and wonders why the FP's are gone. Are both systems 'fair' -- yes in that when FP are available everyone has the same access and mental capacity to figure it out ( my 7 year old niece understands how it works ) - and eventhough it is 1 or 2 AM the 5 year old still has the same access to the MK....but other factors dictate whether they can take advantage of or not
