Originally Posted By MPierce >> Ugh...another "fastpass is evil" debate? There's nothing wrong with fastpass. The problem is managers who can't adjust the FP machines correctly for the day. << The only problem with Fast Pass is that it exist.
Originally Posted By A Happy Haunt I've never had a problem with FP either. I use it, enjoy it & snicker at the dumbies standing in line for hours on end! Nice!! I also won a Dream FP during AYOAMD & that was REALLY COOL!!
Originally Posted By Goofyernmost >>>Nope. I love fastpass. I'd stop going without it.<<< Cool...that means that it isn't really needed. If you don't go the regular line will be one person faster and all of us will be happy. So many people say that they won't go if FP isn't there, but come on, really? How did we manage to keep Disney Parks open all those years without FP to begin with? I remember it...yes, sometimes the lines were long but even notoriously slow loaders like 20K wasn't unbearable. The important thing psychologically was that you knew that wherever you were in line, your time to ride could be easily and confidently measured. When you were next...you were next. You didn't get up to the front only to have a group of folks who had been sitting back picking there toe nails walk right up and get ahead of you. That was something that was not measurable or expected even after it had been established. Obviously, that made the FP'ers extremely happy and went home with warm, fuzzy dreams while the others that had earned their due sat back and watched it happen. They went home tired and frustrated. Of those that were first timers, I wonder how many ever came back to the parks. I'm not able to know but I could guess that a large percentage of them never returned. Who needs that crap on their vacation. I, personally, always thought that if they charged for it, I would be happier waiting in the slow line because then I would at least have had the pleasure of knowing that they were paying more money to see the same thing I was seeing without paying extra. Kind of gives it a warm glow! And please don't kid yourselves, I can see all of the attractions without using FP and it really won't take me that much longer to do so as long as you factor in the time it takes to collect FP's, the time waiting for your window to open, (things won't always fit conveniently in the time frame), the distance traveled to get the FP and then return to other attractions or the volumes of time spent planning it all out so you get the FP you want when you want it, squeezing in the other attractions around it and generally making a vacation feel like a day in the office. Keep it...I don't want it.
Originally Posted By MPierce No one will ever convince Fast Pass fans that it's wrong. However, it does cause resentment among guest. It uses resources that could best be used else where. It does create bottlenecks in the queue. The actual return times are not enforced, and eventually you will be paying upfront for it.
Originally Posted By sjhym33 Fastpass is a miserable system that makes Standby line long. When Soarin changed over to new FP machines a couple of years back the attraction was fun without FP's for 3 days. There was never more than a 30 min at any time and most of the time it was around 20 mins. With FP's the line Standby line would have been 45-60 mins.
Originally Posted By Hista98 I remember it...yes, sometimes the lines were long but even notoriously slow loaders like 20K wasn't unbearable. The important thing psychologically was that you knew that wherever you were in line, your time to ride could be easily and confidently measured. When you were next...you were next. You didn't get up to the front only to have a group of folks who had been sitting back picking there toe nails walk right up and get ahead of you. That was something that was not measurable or expected even after it had been established. That's exactly why i hate the new queueless system idea.
Originally Posted By mousermerf Do you feel at a restaurant that the people who made reservations should not get in ahead of people who walk up? That's all FP does. Rides have a limitted capacity and they move people through at the same pace FP or not. The people who have FP got there hours ahead of the standby people now complaining about a 45min wait - just like someone with a reservations at a restaurant may have called and reserved it days in advance. It's not unfair, you simply didn't arrive early enough to get a FP or you didn't plan well enough to allow enough time for the FP wait instead of standing in the queue. If there's a long standby with FP still distributing in a reasonable gap then you're just nuts if you choose to join the line instead. With the few rides that "sell out" of FP you need to plan appropriately. If the people using FP got in line instead of returning later then when you arrived the line would be even longer then the standby you encounter with FP. Why? Because FP shifts the guest numbers back an hour or so - so if you arrived at 6pm with FP working you'd have the queue of everyone who arrived prior to roughly 5pm. Without FP, you've got everyone right up until 6pm when you arrive - a longer line. Interstates slow down at merge because people slow down and don't follow any sort of order and capacity is lost. There is no capacity loss or gain with FP - the same number of people ride.
Originally Posted By magnet I've spent a lot of time thinking about Fastpass and discussing it with other Disney fans. I've heard many of the arguments for it (like the dinner reservation one - which doesn't work since the price of dinner in the park is not included in the base park admission). Nonetheless, I agree with MPierce that it is very difficult to make converts to the cause and not really worth the effort unless they are willing to listen.
Originally Posted By EPCOT Explorer Interesting point on building Pooh on the old 20K site. Why not rebuild Toad in the FLE?
Originally Posted By Goofyernmost So...let's recap! To get the best possible use from a FP one must get there, what did you say...three hours earlier? And that saves time, how again? In a restaurant everyone can make a reservation...again...not everyone can get a FP. Yes, I know...if you get there early enough one will be available to you. So do you get to a restaurant in the morning for an evening meal with a reservation? In my opinion, no one really benefits from FP except possibly for Disney who by distorting reality ever so slightly can make it sound like a real perk. The original idea was really to make it mandatory that everyone get a pass to the ride, that way they could schedule and balance the load to fill in all times. The theory being that if you increase the riders during the times that are normally slower you could get everyone on and spread out the load. Of course, that didn't happen and they were stuck with it. Too many people thought that they just would never go to Disney again if it wasn't for FP and Disney, never willing to take a chance, decided to just make it into what you see today. Something that is only useful to a few, frustrating to many and to big to put away. >>>There is no capacity loss or gain with FP - the same number of people ride.<<< True but in an altogether different sequence. Just like merging on the highway. Those that get there first are not necessarily the ones to go first. It is all in the luck of the draw. Those that would not be able to utilize FP would have to get in the line, but that doesn't mean that they would get in the line ahead of you does it? They like everyone else would have to fall in line based on when they arrived. If they got there earlier than me, for example, OK they are ahead of me, if they got there later...well, they are in back of me. I know were they are, I know were I am and I know that I am continuing to move forward. That is a very important ingredient.
Originally Posted By magnet Does anyone have any more details about the proposed queue-less waiting system in the works? This is supposed to change the way the standby queue operates, correct? It will not change anything about Fastpass - is that right?
Originally Posted By EPCOT Explorer Yep, no change on FP, but it's the equivalent of getting a pager at a restaurant. You mill about and wait for your number to be called.
Originally Posted By mousermerf <<<but that doesn't mean that they would get in the line ahead of you does it? >>> Yes. It does. Anyone with a FP had to have arrived at an attraction before you. They are not dilly-dallying or any such thing. They had to have been at that attraction well before you to get their FP. When you arrive and the line long due to FP and continued FP-returns, every single one of those people got to the attraction before you did. If they had all gotten in a regular line without FP the queue would be just as long.
Originally Posted By mousermerf Fun with math.. If an attraction sells out of FP forcing you into the standby queue - it's doing you a favor. Soarin at Epcot sells out around 11am on busy days and then gets a 3 hour standby wait. If Soarin is only distributing 20% of it's hourly capacity, then at 11am the number of people who have gotten FP is 200% of an hours capacity. 2 hours worth of people. So how many people are in that 3 hour line at that point? 80%-80%-80% of an hour's ride capacity. That's 240% of an hour's capacity. Roughly 2.5 hours. So the 3 hour standby with FP is SHORTER then the 4.5 hours it would be if everyone got in line.
Originally Posted By mousermerf Btw, some people say Soarin does 40% FP. 40% x 10hrs of distrubtion available = 400% of an hour capacity (4 hours). 3 hour standby, 60% x 3 = 180% an hour's capacity. (1hr, 45mins) So the 3 hours with FP is a heck of a lot shorter then 5 hr 45 mins without any FP. It dosn't matter how they tweak the system - it's doing you a favor.
Originally Posted By HokieSkipper Don't whine because you don't get a FP. Seriously. You can get one just like the rest of the guests. And I don't want to hear the "it makes me rush around the park" because I have NEVER done that in the years I've been going to the park with FP. I get them when I want them and never not enjoy just strolling around the park.
Originally Posted By magnet >>>So the 3 hour standby with FP is SHORTER then the 4.5 hours it would be if everyone got in line.<<< To think that the wait would be 4.5 hours without FP is silly. People come to the pavilion to get the FP tickets knowing that they will ride later. If FP did not exist it is ridiculous to suggest that this same number of people (2 hours worth) would pile into the ride queue anyhow by 11 AM. They would instead disperse throughout the park. In your example, closing FP would speed up the standby queue by 20% since that much capacity is now added back to servicing the standby queue. The rate of people entering the standby queue would have to increase (above the amount that were already coming in through FP and standby combined) for the wait time to lengthen. So, that would be a benefit of about 1/2 hour by closing FP.
