Originally Posted By mousermerf You're ignoring all the people who came and got FP. They went to that attraction - how can you say they wouldn't wait in line? FP is a commitment to ride, so obviously they intend to ride that attraction. You're just trying to use an obscure hypothetical to support your view. People wont get in line? That's why Soarin and Test Track both have 5 hour waits during peak periods?
Originally Posted By mousermerf You know, if aliens came and irradiated everyone infront of me, there'd be no line. Why doesn't Disney do more to attract aliens who are willing to irradiate people so I can ride faster?
Originally Posted By magnet >>>You're just trying to use an obscure hypothetical to support your view. <<< The FastPass machines draw people who want to get a ticket for later. If the machines were not operating, many of these people would distribute to other places in the park and come back to the ride throughout the 10 hours of its operation -- not cluster within the first 2 hours that the non-existent FP tickets are usually available. That is not an obscure point.
Originally Posted By mousermerf And if they do as you propose then it's still a 3 hour wait. They just redistribute to the their return times but still add to capacity -on top of- the 3 hour wait that existed before, so that wait doesn't change. The ride can't move people in an hour then its capacity. That's the part you seem to forget.
Originally Posted By magnet The hourly capacity doesn't change, but the speed of the line does increase. That's the part you forget.
Originally Posted By mousermerf But the people are stuck in one line instead of two - it's the same wait. Yeah, you move forward faster through a longer line. A 3 hour FP-included wait takes up less space then a 3-hour FP-free line. It will not get anyone on the ride faster to not have FP.
Originally Posted By mousermerf Who cares? You move faster but you're not getting on sooner and now you're outside the themed building in rope switchbacks - how is that better?
Originally Posted By SafariRob >>How can Indy in DL cause gridlock in the park? I am completely convinced based on the length of the Q that the actual Indy ride is in Mexico.<< It's not the queue itself. It's people coming and going. I don't remember Adventureland being that gridlocked before Indy opened. Actually, right after Indy opened, the queue did stretch out through Adventureland and (I have heard) even out of Adventureland at times. But that was before FastPass. Sorry, couldn't resist.
Originally Posted By Goofyernmost >>>Don't whine because you don't get a FP. Seriously. You can get one just like the rest of the guests.<<< OMG...What part of limited distribution do you not get. There are NOT enough FP's to go around. They stop distributing them at a Disney decided point so...NO, NO, NO and again NO, you CANNOT always get one and if, as stated, some rides are only 30% FP then 70% CANNOT get a FP, can they? And if I have to get to the park at the crack of dawn or have to stay until midnight in order to reach my window, it is hardly what I call a major draw for me. >>>Actually, right after Indy opened, the queue did stretch out through Adventureland and (I have heard) even out of Adventureland at times. But that was before FastPass.<<< The key phrase in that statement is "right after Indy opened". I doubt that fastpass would make a lot of difference to the gridlock at this point. I rode it during the 50th celebration at DL, without a FP and it was almost a walk on, very little wait, two or three minutes tops.
Originally Posted By Goofyernmost You know what else causes the delays at Soarin? Simple...people go immediately to the kiosk and get a FP. Then they see that the wait time is only 20 minutes at that time of the morning so they ride it sans FP. Then they come back again later with FP in hand and hold up the standby line so they can unselfishly ride it again only this time they are causing others that haven't been on yet to wait longer. So in effect someone that would probably only have ridden it once, leaving room for others, is now doing it multiple times. How do I know...easy I once did just that. I went with my family, we headed straight for FP, saw the line was small and went immediately on the ride. Then some of us came back and did our FP trip. In the process a couple of my grandkids decided that they didn't want to ride again so we got their tickets and rode yet again. Lets see what the result of that was...I rode Soarin three times (yeah), held up two seperate groups of people waiting in standby, used up the whole morning in a unexplainable desire to constantly ride a ride that was the same the third time as it was the first, missed some other attractions because I ran out of time to see them and felt generally happy that I saw Soarin so often but upset that I didn't get to see some of the other things I wanted to see.
Originally Posted By sjhym33 Once again an interesting conversation about FP. The problem with FP is that in theory it should work great but then you add one factor that mucks up the whole thing...people. The movement of people can be helped or hurt by a CM who isnt using their brain about moving the two lines. I have seen CM's holding back standby even when there are no FP guests waiting. I have seen coordinators bring the standby line to a standstill when the FP return line gets long. When you hold the Standby line 5-10 mins to clean up the FP line it automatically pushes that wait time very long. Since most savvy guests now understand that though there is a return time they can return at any time past their return time they use that fact to their advantage. The problem with that is the careful and complicated formula that Disney uses is completely thrown off. Even in the best situation just stand at a FP return line and you can see the normal ebb and flow of people. You can have minutes of no one entering the FP line then have 50 guests show up at once. Since Disney mgmt has deemed the FP line to be the primary line it automatically affects the standby line. And lets not talk about what happens after a long downtime and Disney allows only FP return guests to queue up until that line returns to a managable length. I visited Space Mountain last week and there was a 50 min wait posted. I was a manager at SM at one time and know the attraction well. Got to the top of the ramp and in the old days the total wait time would have been 25 mins with a line that long, but the CM was holding the Standby Line while letting FP guests (who there werent many of) walk right up instead of moving the Standby line along to minimize the wait. He had either been told to only load one side of SM with Standby guests and the other with FP guests (even though there were not many people on the FP side) or he didnt understand people distribution. Either way it created a longer wait for standby guests. I have worked FP attractions, been involved in FP testing and was involved in a major attractions FP % test. Goofyernmost is completely correct that FP is a mental shell game to make guests think they are gaining something.
Originally Posted By HokieSkipper I understand FP perfectly. I work an attraction with it, and probably understand the systme better than most of my superiors. You want a fastpass? Get to the park early enough and get them. i was there during Christmas the "busiest time of the year" with my family and we didnt have one problem getting a fastpass for everything we wanted. Without running around the park like mad men. Don't complain because you can't. And for the person says you would wait less without FP, that's not necessarily true. I remember waiting 2 hours for the JC without fastpass.
Originally Posted By Goofyernmost >>>You want a fastpass? Get to the park early enough and get them. i was there during Christmas the "busiest time of the year" with my family and we didnt have one problem getting a fastpass for everything we wanted. Without running around the park like mad men. Don't complain because you can't. And for the person says you would wait less without FP, that's not necessarily true. I remember waiting 2 hours for the JC without fastpass.<<< First...I don't want to go to the parks early. I am on vacation. I don't want to make going to Disney feel like a chore. I don't want to stand aside and wait for the Type A personalities to get their jollies as they rush through everything there like it's some sort of marathon. Second...I don't remember anyone saying that it was faster without FP now. It used to be before FP ever existed generally, but not always due to differing circumstances. The lines were slightly longer but they kept moving. That is important...one can tolerate waiting if progress is being made. When forced to stand in one spot for 20 minutes while legalized line cutters take your place, then I start to loose my sense of humor.
