Originally Posted By Neon Cactus I still don't quite understand what all of the issues are with fastpass. In my opinion it's far more fair than any pay for privileges at Universal or Six Flags. It opens up the availability of using it to everyone. Even when fastpass first came out and I hadn't figured out how to best use it, I loved the idea. I've been able to experience more attractions on my visits because of it. The bulk of the complaints about it seem to be because either people arrive late and have to wait hours for their return time or can't get a fastpass for the ride, or they aren't aware of how fastpass works. Name anything, and the people who get there first are going to get the best tickets. Whether it's concert tickets, $19 VCRs at Walmart or fastpasses to Space Mountain. I think it's a great service and I appreciate the fact that I can now spend that hour plus I'd be waiting in line for Soarin' having a nice lunch at Alfredos.
Originally Posted By danyoung ^^ There seems to be two valid concerns with FP. The first is that by design the standby lines have to move much slower than the old single lines used to move. I have no problem with this - just don't do standby on a FP attraction. The Soarin' queue in Epcot is a perfect example of this. With FP - sail right on up to the front. Without it - stand in a slow moving wide line and feel like cattle being driven to slaughter! The other problem is that, with many people using FP and not standing in long lines, there are many more people out there filling up all the other available space, on walkways, in stores and in other queues. And I can see where this has become a serious issue, especially at DL with the narrower walkways. But I still feel the benefits of FP far outweigh the problems.
Originally Posted By TDLFAN >>I have no problem with this - just don't do standby on a FP attraction.<< THAT is exactly my problem!!! You *paid* to be entertained, so why are guests forced to choose between FP and stand by, and in some cases... NOT having a choice but stand by when FPs have been distributed???? FP is an extremely unfair system, but we can go on and on and on...and those who understand and use the system will always praise it. Reason why this topic has run it's course.
Originally Posted By danyoung >You *paid* to be entertained, so why are guests forced to choose between FP and stand by, and in some cases... NOT having a choice but stand by when FPs have been distributed????< This is like saying that I wanted to see a ball game - why am I forced to sit up here in the nosebleed seats, or had to watch on TV cuz there were no more tickets. There is absolutely nothing unfair about FP - it's a tool to use to benefit your park experience. If you don't know how to use it and others do, you're gonna suffer. By the same token if you go to a Disney park for the first time and don't do your research, you're not gonna see nearly as much in a day as I can with all my years of experience. Unfair? Not at all - just the difference between a newbie and one who knows how to work the system.
Originally Posted By RoadTrip <<There seems to be two valid concerns with FP. The first is that by design the standby lines have to move much slower than the old single lines used to move.>> I disagree. Without FP those now in the FP line would be in the regular line and the wait would be just as long. All FP does is give a person a 'virtual' spot in line. Instead of actually standing in line they are free to do other things until it is their time to enter the attraction. Whether they enter by standing in line or by having a virtual spot in that line, it has no effect on how long others will wait. <<>>Unfair?<< YES, and your point of view doesn't convince me.>> You may be unconvinced, but you are still wrong.
Originally Posted By Goofyernmost >>>Whether they enter by standing in line or by having a virtual spot in that line, it has no effect on how long others will wait.<<< I can't even wrap my brain around that statement. The only reasonable logic I can find is if the assumption is made that all those in the "virtual" spot are now in front of them. Therefore nothing changed. If, however, they are dispersed then someone will get there faster then if a large group of "virtual's" cuts in front of the line. Yes, the same number of people get on the ride per hour but if you are 100th in a line that loads at 90 per hour then you get another 50 that cut in front via FP you, as an individual, will spend significantly more time in line than you would in a one line, first come, first served basis.
Originally Posted By Disneybrad "100th in a line that loads at 90 per hour then you get another 50 that cut in front via FP you, as an individual, will spend significantly more time in line than you would in a one line, first come, first served basis." Thats Only true if none of those people Would not have ridden the ride. COme visit Soarin on Extra Magic Nights, It does NOT have fastpass durring these hours, and guess what. The line is just as long as durring the day. The line Physically moves Faster, but the wait is still just as long.
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo I suppose one of the real issues is that in the old days, you could judge whether queing was worth while by just looking at the lines. Now it is far more difficult with FP. Also, standby is not as boring when you are moving faster. And the sidewalks/shops/restaurants never felt as crowded before. Personally, I quite like Fastpass, but I do understand the gripes here.
Originally Posted By danyoung >Whether they enter by standing in line or by having a virtual spot in that line, it has no effect on how long others will wait.< This may be true - I don't really know. But I do know that standing in one of the older pre-FP lines was much less gruelling. The line by its nature of being the only line was much faster moving. Now you've been slowed down to a crawl. As I said, I rarely stand in a FP standby line, unless it's early and it's only 10 minutes or so. >TDLFAN: ...and your point of view doesn't convince me.< Well, why should you start listening to logic now???
Originally Posted By schoolsinger >>>Whether they enter by standing in line or by having a virtual spot in that line, it has no effect on how long others will wait.<<< Wrong! That would be true only if people were not getting into any other lines while waiting for their fastpass time. The fact of the matter is that most people get in lines for other rides while waiting for their fastpass time. This causes people to take up two spots in line instead of one. Let us say for a hypothetical, that there are 10,000 people in the park. All 10,000 people have a fastpass. All 10,000 people are waiting in a standby line while waiting for their fastpass time. Since all 10,000 people are taking up two spots in line, the lines would have the equivalent wait as if there were 20,000 people in the park. Allowing people to take up multiple spots in lines at once artificially inflates the crowds.
Originally Posted By TDLFAN >>why should you start listening to logic now???<< Maybe so I can improve my spelling?!?! I dunno. >>You may be unconvinced, but you are still wrong.<< By your opinions, yes I am, and so was 51% of you who voted for Bush, so your point is???
Originally Posted By Mouskateer Just a thought here... we were line for the Safari Ride at AK and did not use fast pass... The que was 20 min, told to us by a CM... as we snaked our way through the line Fastpassers continued to stream by us on the right hand side of the roped line... We still boarded in 20 minutes, even though FP's were ahead of us... Is it possible that the que time is adjusted for the numder of FP's issued.. My two cents... Thank you..
Originally Posted By Labuda They actually figure standby time (as well as FP wait times) by occasionally handing a small plastic card on a lanyard to someone - it's activated as handed to the guest, then the guest gives it to a person in the boarding area. That's how they adjust standby wait times.
Originally Posted By disney pete yep i can vouch for that we where given one of the tags on splash one day.
Originally Posted By RoadTrip <<The fact of the matter is that most people get in lines for other rides while waiting for their fastpass time. This causes people to take up two spots in line instead of one. >> That is an excellent point that I had not thought of. The person is indeed effectively standing in two lines at once, and will tend to increase overall wait times at the park. I can admit when I am wrong, and this time I was.
Originally Posted By LOUDROCK Some of you still got it wrong. Again, Fastpass does not change the overall or aggragate number of rides per day. A ride's hourly capacity remains constant whether one is holding 0 or 50 Fastpasses. Come on people this is common sense. Therefore the total number of guests serviced by rides is the same with or without Fastpass. The only thing that is different with Fastpass is that we now have a choice. But to say that the TOTAL waiting is longer thanks to Fastpass lacks simple logic.
Originally Posted By RoadTrip <<Some of you still got it wrong. Again, Fastpass does not change the overall or aggragate number of rides per day.>> I originally agreed with your post, but schoolsinger presented an argument in #299 that makes 100% sense. A person with a Fastpass is effectively standing in two lines at once. That increases his/her number of rides per day at the expense of someone not using Fastpass. It does not change the overall number of rides per day. It does redistribute who gets those rides.
Originally Posted By mrichmondj How long does the person in the virtual Fastpass ride wait, though? If their return time is hours away, then they are effectively standing in line for that many hours. In aggregate, wait times are substantially affected. Ride capacity and park attendance level are the only two real metrics that impact wait times. I would have to say that the reduction in number of rides over the past 10 years (Skyway, Subs, Motorboats, etc.) has contributed more to lengthier lines than Fastpass ever did.
Originally Posted By mrichmondj ^^ I think I meant to say that "wait times are NOT substantially affected." I also shouldn't have thrown the motorboats in, since they were only at Disneyland.
