Originally Posted By DVC_dad Fastpass is here to stay no matter what anyone says or does. Hooray for our side! I do know how to make it work better tho. Come back from Pleasure Island before 2:00 AM, and be there when the park opens. Although even this may not work in July. Still, there ARE some factors you CAN control.
Originally Posted By Labuda " If you just want to be dropped from a height then IOA has a classic pull you up, drop you down ride." Is that IOA ride in an enclosed space like TOT? And are you in an elevator-like contraption like TOT? Or is is open air, with legs hanging out? If the latter, there's no WAY I'd ride it. I LOVE TOT, especially for the drops at the end, but I'll be darned if I'd do it if TOT were a leg-dangling, exposed ride. NO WAY.
Originally Posted By IanBassi IOA Drop Tower is leg exposed ones, and I think it is really well themed. Dr Dooms Tower Of Terror.
Originally Posted By trekkeruss <<I believe that FP was originally designed as an experimental system. It was an effort to determine if it were possible to control the times that people went to the rides and therefore eliminate the lines completely>> I doubt this was the case; if it were, they wouldn't have bothered with a standby queue at all. They would have just issued FP alone, using the attractions capacity to determine how many FP's would be available at any given time. I *would* be curious to know what formula Disney uses to determine how many FP's are available.
Originally Posted By Jim in Merced CA My issue with FastPass is that it eliminates any spontaneity for the casual visitor. You know, the one who isn't interested in 'powering out' a day at theme park, and just wants to move through the park at a more casual pace. Case in point. Back in the day, if you came back to Disneyland at 4:00 in the afternoon, you would find that Big Thunder Mountain had no line -- a walk on. Now, at 4:00 in the afternoon, you have a small line of Fast Pass holders racing through the line, while most of the folks are in the Stand By line [they weren't able to get Fast Pass tickets] waiting for 40 minutes. Same thing with Autopia. With Autopia! At 4:00 in the afternoon, there's a 90 minute Standby line, and FastPass holders who are practically jogging through the queue. Autopia, at 4:00 in the afternoon, should be a 15-20 minute wait. Tops. That's the failure of FastPass. Sure, in life 'you snooze you lose' but at Disneyland, there are some people on this earth who don't want to have to hyper-plan their trips, schedulize every move they make, and lose out on walking up to a ride and on a whim say 'let's ride this' without having to wait 45 minutes in a falsely created 'StandBy' line.
Originally Posted By Chelledun Personally, I am pretty ambivalent about FASTPASS. I was fine without it, but now that it is around I appreciate using it from time to time. I have a tough time understanding how it is unfair in any way, however. When one visits a Disney Theme Park, lots of choices are always made. An Example Before FASTPASS: It is a very busy day at the parks. If I decide to arrive early at the Magic Kingdom and ride the attractions there early in the morning when the lines are short, I am making a choice not to arrive at EPCOT early and ride when the lines are short. As a result, I will have to arrive later at EPCOT and be forced to wait in a long line for Soarin' or else skip it altogether. An Example with FASTPASS: I decide to arrive early at AK because I really want to experience both Kilimanjaro Safari and EE. I grab a fastpass for KS and go ride EE. Then I head over and ride KS. As a result, when I head over to EPCOT in the afternoon all the FASTPASSES for Soarin' are gone. I have made the choice not to arrive early and receive a fast pass for Soarin'. Therefore I now have the choice of either waiting in a long standby line or skipping the attraction. *In both situations... 1. I had the choice of different parks and different attractions within the parks. 2. Everyone else had the same choices to arrive early at the same parks and attractions. 3. Everyone has a choice not to arrive early at any park at all. 4. The people who arrive early benefit by being able to ride more attraction in a short amount of time. In these two scenerios, I have trouble seeing how the first one is fair but the second one is not. Inefficient, maybe. It could be argued that the lines are ALL longer because FASTPASS isn't well utilized and slows down the process. I also understand the argument that missing the queues undermines the experience. But I don't understand, how is this unfair?
Originally Posted By IanBassi Another problem with fast pass is when the ride breaks down. We had this one at thunder mountain, and the CM said come back later and they would honour our FP. Clearly, if lots of people come back outside there allocated time it will make the the standby queues longer. I think we should not ignore the fact that Disney has a lot of information about queue lengths at different times of the day. CMs give out cards on a necklace which they scan, and give to you as you join the queue. Once you are about to ride, you give it back to a CM, and it works out how long the queue was. I think we have to accept Fast Passes are here to stay, so rather than saying its good or bad, we should think of ways to improve it.
Originally Posted By typhoonCM I just want to throw in my 2 cents worth here about the claims that Fast Pass creates longer lines... last year from July 2nd to July 11th I took part in a research cross-u. Our goal was to determine the difference in line times when Fast Pass was utilized compared to days it was not available. We studied the Haunted Mansion, Splash Mountain, the Jungle Cruise and Buzz Lightyear's Space Ranger Spin. Though I was never able to see the 'official results', the results that I turned in on my paper where as such... Tuesday July 5th I was stationed at Haunted Mansion from 1300-1700 WITHOUT fastpasses available to guests. The queue line jumped between 30 minutes' wait and 70 minutes' wait, but averaged out to be 40 minutes. On Wednesday the 6th, WITH fastpass availabe, the average wait NOT INCLUDING fastpass was 45 minutes, the average wait INCLUDING guests utilizing fastpass ended up being 25 minutes. The Time windows on Wednesday (1300-1700) varied between 20minutes and 80 minutes. I'm hoping to get another Cross-U this spring, as I've seen they've posted the same fast-pass research sub-heading in the Cross U binder in my department. I'd be more than willing to post any info I find at that time. Interpret this information however you'd like, but at the specific attraction I monitered times for, there seemed to be VERY LITTLE difference in both days when fastpass was offered and when it wasnt, with the exception of the fact that when Fast Pass guests are included in the averages, the numbers drop significantly. But at the same time, let it be noted that we ran out of Fast Passes at 3:45PM on Wednesday the 6th.
Originally Posted By danyoung >...there is a huge difference in my mind between segregating guests by monetary means and those who choose not go get up early -- one you have a choice on, the other you don't.< Thank you for saying this. Everyone has the same opportunity to make use of the system. The first time visitor will be at a disadvantage, but can learn quickly. To say it's not fair is like saying that the Califormia Grill is way too expensive for most, and that's not fair!
Originally Posted By danyoung >... most of these folks were blocked off from using another FP until very later in the day... So that rule effectively took away their chances to take advantage of FPs on other rides earlier in the day...< Isn't there now a 2 hour window? In other words, if you get a FP at 10am for a ride between 3pm & 4pm, can't you get another FP 2 hours after issuance, in this case at 12noon?
Originally Posted By danyoung >The whole "elitist" argument falls apart with one simple fact: FastPass is free and available to all.< Bingo!!!
Originally Posted By Jim in Merced CA Well sure, FastPass is available to all, but like everything else, there are levels of those 'in the know' to those who have no clue. People learn tricks to what FastPass lines are 'connected' and how to do all that other semi-militant stuff. I'm just saying that for the casual visitor, FastPass is confusing, intimidating, and so they just don't bother doing it.
Originally Posted By typhoonCM I'm not quite sure how FastPass would be confusing or intimidating... my mother mastered it on her first trip to Disney World simply by reading the instructions on the map. She read "insert park ticket, receive Fast Pass, return to Fast Pass line at the time on the ticket. This is a free service". Sure, there are those that dont pick up maps and might wish that a Cast Member would tell them this at a turnstile, but who wants to stand in an even LONGER line at a turnstile because CMs are required to inform guests about fast pass..... not me! Though it might be nice it there were a little more guest friendly signage explaining the system with pictures... The current signage has words and I think most people dismiss it as a ride-safety warning or something of the like... seems any more guests only look at a sign if it has pictures.
Originally Posted By TDLFAN >>My issue with FastPass is that it eliminates any spontaneity for the casual visitor. You know, the one who isn't interested in 'powering out' a day at theme park, and just wants to move through the park at a more casual pace.<< That is exactly my gripe with FP and how it has impacted me as a local and APer who only spends a few hours at the parks every so often...
Originally Posted By Elderp "That is exactly my gripe with FP and how it has impacted me as a local and APer who only spends a few hours at the parks every so often..." No offense but I think I see something emerging here. Sorry APers have to be like everyone else and FP gives everyone an equal footing at planning and seeing everything. Disney isn't interested in people breezing in and out. They want you to stay because the longer you stay the more likely you will buy stuff (not just merchandise, ie food).
Originally Posted By TDLFAN Disney can not always get what they wish for. Otherwise, guests would be shopping while they wait for their FP window to come up.
Originally Posted By danyoung >I'm not quite sure how FastPass would be confusing or intimidating...< I totally agree with you. Look, anyone visiting a Disney park for the first time is going to be somewhat overwhelmed. Now, is it unfair that we experts can see more and do more than they can, based on our knowledge of the place? Of course not! If someone wants to take the 30 seconds or so that are required to figger out FP, then they have the same advantage as anyone else. And the people who go all gonzo and get multiple passes based on which machines are linked and so forth is such a small number as to not impact the system in any way. And I say more power to 'em - if they wanna read the entire Darkbeer archives and memorize the thousands of ways to cheat the system, then they deserve a benefit for all their hard work!
Originally Posted By LuvDatDisney I also am abivalent regarding FastPass, although there's no doubt there are plenty of attractions where it has no purpose, like any of the movies. But overall, I think it's helped push the dilution of the Disney guest experience -- even though FP is ostensibly here to help guests by doing away with their biggest (supposed) complaints -- lines. I always thought Disney parks were like a fine glass of merlot with a perfectly cooked filet mignon. Something to be savored. Enjoyed. Just for being there. Even soaking in the atmosphere in the queues, which always set up the story. FP is like chugging a Big Mac value meal, sure it can be satisfying, but it's not special. Anyone get my point here?
Originally Posted By basas <<The whole "elitist" argument falls apart with one simple fact: FastPass is free and available to all.>> But for how long? <<And that's the point. FP was not designed to allow everyone to skip the wait in line. It was designed to free up a certain number of people on any given day. And in that, it is succesfull.>> No...it was designed to get people to spend more by eating and shopping while they wait. It's never really worked though because people instead spend their time in the next attraction's longer standby line (cancelling out the time they've saved anyways). The fact that Disney has LOWERED capacity at attractions like Living with the Land to encourage longer standby lines, therefore making more guests pick up a FP and eat in the food court, shows this. <<but the fact that even DL Park has modified or eliminated FP at some attractions...does give reason to believe they are re-evaluating this or maybe looking for a way to improve it?>> To be fair, it's not just DL Park. WDW has eliminated FP at a few attractions are sharply reduced how often it runs at many others.
Originally Posted By basas <<ell, If I had gone to IOA on a slow day, I'd definitely not invest in it for obvious reasons..>> But that is the thing...who knows how busy it's going to be? Sure it may look busy at the park gates...but the crowd is then dispersed throughout the empty park and all the waits may be 5-10 minutes. <<They should do this when the queues for standby get to long as well. Stop people joining them. Once a Standby queue gets to 2 hours long, they should stop people joining until X amound of people have gone through>> Why? People should be able to wait as long as they want for any attraction. If they want to wait 2-3-4 hours, let them.
