Originally Posted By LuvDatDisney "No...it was designed to get people to spend more by eating and shopping while they wait. It's never really worked though because people instead spend their time in the next attraction's longer standby line (cancelling out the time they've saved anyways). The fact that Disney has LOWERED capacity at attractions like Living with the Land to encourage longer standby lines, therefore making more guests pick up a FP and eat in the food court, shows this." Great, great point. Recently, I waited 30 minutes to get on Living with the Land because they had only THREE boats running. That's crazy. But it justifies FastPass.
Originally Posted By basas <<I believe that FP was originally designed as an experimental system. It was an effort to determine if it were possible to control the times that people went to the rides and therefore eliminate the lines completely>> Actually I believe they did initally believe they would seriously lower the wait times for everyone...don't think they expected long standby queues. They thought, instead of going on another ride while they wait, guests would go shop. I guess they forgot to think about the walkway crowds, and lowered capacities this would create... <<Tuesday July 5th I was stationed at Haunted Mansion from 1300-1700 WITHOUT fastpasses available to guests. The queue line jumped between 30 minutes' wait and 70 minutes' wait, but averaged out to be 40 minutes. On Wednesday the 6th, WITH fastpass availabe, the average wait NOT INCLUDING fastpass was 45 minutes, the average wait INCLUDING guests utilizing fastpass ended up being 25 minutes. The Time windows on Wednesday (1300-1700) varied between 20minutes and 80 minutes.>> Not saying your research is in-correct, but there could have been a number of factors considering those are completely different days. July 5 might have had a much higher guest count, or maybe just more people wanted to ride HM (?). And considering they got RID of FP at HM both at DL, and WDW...they must have found something wrong with it. Fact is, waits HAVE increased with FP...there is just no-way you would see the kind of waits we see on moderate days back before FP. 75 minutes for Peter Pan, or Winnie the Pooh, or Space Mountain....moderate days USED to be around the 45 minute mark in the middle of the day.
Originally Posted By LuvDatDisney I never saw waits longer than 30 minutes TOPS even on July 4, Dec. 25 or 31 etc ... on the MK's Mansion before FastPass. I never understood why they added it there. The attraction swallows people like a whale.
Originally Posted By basas <<I never saw waits longer than 30 minutes TOPS even on July 4, Dec. 25 or 31 etc ... on the MK's Mansion before FastPass. I never understood why they added it there. The attraction swallows people like a whale.>> Not to mention FP was a complete mess on it...Basically it was just a mass merge in the middle of the covered queue with no control and with FP guests skipping very little of the regular wait anyways...at least, that was the case when I experienced it. Then of course, when FP caused the line to back up, they'd have to route it through the old Keel Boat docks! However now that FP is officially gone from our Mansion (thankfully!), how about removing those machines? I know asking for the Keel boats back would be too much, but couldn't we have something better than rope-covered FP machines!?
Originally Posted By Goofyernmost >>>As far as missing the details of the queue I understand - but a pretty cavalier attitude about going to a carnival instead - ( bodering on rude like your way is the only way)<<< A quote attributed to Harry S Truman goes like this. When asked how he got the reputation of "Give 'em Hell, Harry" he replied. "I just tell the truth and they think it's hell." So you say "rude", because that is the way I see it. Fine! I go to WDW for the entire experience, the show, the entertainment. If that is not what others go for, so be it, but when catering to the "carnival" masses means that I must be left to feel unimportant than I object. In this case I'm just telling the truth and they think it's rude. It is my opinion and I do not have any intention of straying from it. I have even said that I have used Fastpass, but it wasn't because I felt a need to see everything as fast as I could. On the rare occasion that I used it, I was only mildly interested in the attraction but wanted to see it, but not bad enough to stand in the Fastpass created standby line. My instincts were correct every time. Had I waited in line for that attraction for over an hour my blood pressure would have elevated to head blowing proportions. If my opinions and the words I use to describe them are "rude", I guess I'll just have to live with that. But that was not the intention so there isn't much I can do about it. I will continue to express my opinions just like you do with the Playground thing. Some people like it there but you do not. You have never pulled any words when describing your feelings and neither shall I.
Originally Posted By danyoung >it was designed to get people to spend more by eating and shopping while they wait. It's never really worked though because people instead spend their time in the next attraction's longer standby line (cancelling out the time they've saved anyways).< I don't get your logic here, unless you're privy to inside information from Disney's internal surveys, which I doubt. Yeah, I'll tend to go on other rides while waiting for an attraciton. But if there's say a 20 minute wait till my window opens up, I might just stroll through the stores when I'd usually be storming from ride to ride. So I'm guessing that FP did exactly what it was supposed to do - keep people out of the lines.
Originally Posted By trekkeruss <<it was designed to get people to spend more by eating and shopping while they wait. It's never really worked though because people instead spend their time in the next attraction's longer standby line (cancelling out the time they've saved anyways). The fact that Disney has LOWERED capacity at attractions like Living with the Land to encourage longer standby lines, therefore making more guests pick up a FP and eat in the food court, shows this.>> You've contradicted yourself with these statements, saying it doesn't get people to shop or eat, yet at the Land they get a FP and go to the food court.
Originally Posted By Jim in Merced CA <So I'm guessing that FP did exactly what it was supposed to do - keep people out of the lines.> Yes, FastPass keeps lots of people out of the lines. Which, at least at Disneyland, makes for an extremely crowded park. Adventureland has always been a crowded area, and now that FastPass allows you to 'save your place in line' those people are now out in the walkways -- Adventureland is always insane. Even on relatively slow days, Disneyland, since FastPass came to be, always 'feels' more crowded because of all the extra people in the walkways. Yeah, I know, everyone deserves to go to Disneyland, I'm not suggesting they can't. My only argument is that with all the people utilizing FastPass, it does make the park feel more crowded. And anything that adds to the feeling that the park is more crowded is not a good thing.
Originally Posted By wolfchild I honestly have not taken the time to read through this entire thread. I just have one question though (I apologize if it has already been addressed). I, for one, love the Fast Pass system at Disneyland. DH and I use it to get in as many rides as possible each day since we are usually only at the park for a day or two each trip. But, we did learn on our trip before last that Fast passes are actually good for the rest of the day once the time comes up for them. So, if you have a Fast Pass that has a window of time from 1:15 to 2:15 you can use that Pass from 1:15 until the park closes to go through the Fast Pass line at the ride. We utilized that multiple times on multiple rides. Finding that it worked best when a return time was right when we had dinner reservations or was right at fireworks time. We just went after whatever our other plans already were. So, after all of that rambling, my question is if it is the same way at WDW or if you are limited only to that hour of time given?
Originally Posted By Labuda You can get away with it at WDW, too. But it's not very nice for the folks inthe standby line to have to wait longer becuase 100 fast pass guests from noon are now hitting the line at 5 pm or whatever.
Originally Posted By basas <<I don't get your logic here, unless you're privy to inside information from Disney's internal surveys, which I doubt. Yeah, I'll tend to go on other rides while waiting for an attraciton. But if there's say a 20 minute wait till my window opens up, I might just stroll through the stores when I'd usually be storming from ride to ride. So I'm guessing that FP did exactly what it was supposed to do - keep people out of the lines.>> Well, the merchandise sales didn’t quite spike as expected. <<You've contradicted yourself with these statements, saying it doesn't get people to shop or eat, yet at the Land they get a FP and go to the food court.>> No, I'm giving an example of how Disney has taken advantage of guests with FP by TRYING to gain profit through food/etc. I don't think before FP LwtL ever had more than a 15-20 minute wait. Now, it reaches an hour quite regularly. The point is- was there ever a need for FP on LwtL? No. Was it a smart place to put it in? No. Was it put it to help guests to be able to ride? No. Was it put it to help generate revenue at The Land businesses? Yes. And did Disney attempt to make the waits as long as possible to encourage this spending? Yes. And that’s not a good thing IMO. Making the lines many times longer than they need to be, all in attempt to sell a few more soda’s or sandwiches
Originally Posted By TDLFAN >>I always thought Disney parks were like a fine glass of merlot with a perfectly cooked filet mignon. Something to be savored. Enjoyed. Just for being there. Even soaking in the atmosphere in the queues, which always set up the story. FP is like chugging a Big Mac value meal, sure it can be satisfying, but it's not special. Anyone get my point here?<< That you are hungry?? j/k But I know exactly what you meant.
Originally Posted By basas <<I always thought Disney parks were like a fine glass of merlot with a perfectly cooked filet mignon. Something to be savored. Enjoyed. Just for being there. Even soaking in the atmosphere in the queues, which always set up the story. FP is like chugging a Big Mac value meal, sure it can be satisfying, but it's not special.>> What's not special about have to be at Big Thunder between 1pm-2pm, then sprinting to Space for 2:35-3:35, then back over to Jungle Cruise begging for them to let you on (your FP expired at 4)...oh, and on the way, check Winnie the Pooh who may have FP's for later in the night...and try and fit dinner in there if you can! Don't forgot to wave at the people in the standby line as you zoom by onto th ride.
Originally Posted By TDLFAN >>So I'm guessing that FP did exactly what it was supposed to do - keep people out of the lines.<< Correction: "keep people with FP ticket out of the lines" <---that it did accoomplished. But look at the backups in the stand by line... seems to me there are manymore folks putting up with that torture than those who do go to the front. So the way I see it... Lines have never been longer (meaning more people are in line now more than ever)
Originally Posted By mrichmondj i guess i don't get the "lines have never been longer bit." back in the 80s when i first started visiting the disney parks, i remember some very nastly lines in the peak seasons for all the e-ticket attractions. i have never experienced the monster 2-3 hour waits like back then, particularly at WDW where there are now many more parks to distibute out the attendance load.
Originally Posted By TDLFAN >>i have never experienced the monster 2-3 hour waits like back then, particularly at WDW where there are now many more parks to distibute out the attendance load.<< Exactly.. you just mentioned another reason why FP is not needed at WDW.
Originally Posted By vbdad55 <So you say "rude", because that is the way I see it. Fine! I go to WDW for the entire experience, the show, the entertainment. If that is not what others go for, so be it, but when catering to the "carnival" masses means that I must be left to feel unimportant than I object. In this case I'm just telling the truth and they think it's rude. It is my opinion and I do not have any intention of straying from it. < you can stick with it all you want-- it doesn't make your way any more right than anyone else's on how they want to enjoy WDW. Your 'version' of the truth is not the same as everyone else's -- it is not the TRUTH, it is only one opinion --quite a difference. <I will continue to express my opinions just like you do with the Playground thing. Some people like it there but you do not. You have never pulled any words when describing your feelings and neither shall I.M< Fair enough -- but again my viewpoint of the playground is my opinion ( and that of many others here also ) - but it doesn't make it the TRUTH either.
Originally Posted By vbdad55 <You can get away with it at WDW, too. But it's not very nice for the folks inthe standby line to have to wait longer becuase 100 fast pass guests from noon are now hitting the line at 5 pm or whatever.< that part I agree needs to be monitored - maybe a slight open door to allow time to get thru crowds-- but the FP should have an expiration time on it that holds up no matter what the excuse. If you had to feed these passes back into a machine to read them, I am sure the programming could be done to tell how many were returned / used - and how many expired - this freeing up more FP's --
Originally Posted By vbdad55 <I always thought Disney parks were like a fine glass of merlot with a perfectly cooked filet mignon. Something to be savored. Enjoyed. Just for being there. Even soaking in the atmosphere in the queues, which always set up the story. FP is like chugging a Big Mac value meal, sure it can be satisfying, but it's not special. Anyone get my point here?<< your logic works perfectly well, if you live in the area and can attend when you feel like it -- for those who attend 1 -2 times a year or less - it doesn't work nearly as well...
Originally Posted By trekkeruss <<I'm giving an example of how Disney has taken advantage of guests with FP by TRYING to gain profit through food/etc. I don't think before FP LwtL ever had more than a 15-20 minute wait. Now, it reaches an hour quite regularly. The point is- was there ever a need for FP on LwtL? No. Was it a smart place to put it in? No. Was it put it to help guests to be able to ride? No. Was it put it to help generate revenue at The Land businesses? Yes.>> Do you think Disney would have instituted FP if there would be no benefit to the company? Of course not. They are "selling" this service in order to do _exactly_ that... get you to spend more time out of line and spending money. Never forget that Disney is in business to make money.
