Originally Posted By gaydsnywitch Wow, I guess I haven't read the correct topics; I never knew that FastPass evoked such emotions. Here I thought I was asking a simple question. I never dreamed the topic would go in the direction it's gone.
Originally Posted By wonderingalice We're non-local AP'ers that love FastPass. We don't feel rushed to get them, but if we're heading in a certain direction, say "Nemo," we'll pop into Space Mountain and grab 'em for later. When we head to Pirates and Haunted Mansion, we'll stop and see the Indy machines first and eventually take a stroll around the corner and get one for Splash. And the first stop in DCA is for Soarin' FPs. No big deal. We seldom get them for the other FP rides - Mr. Alice doesn't care for Autopia because his long legs get all bunged up in there *LOL*, and we like the queue for Roger Rabbit, so we always do the stand by thing. Yes, we know the "tricks" now... But the very first time we visited together - before I knew about LP (and I don't recall using FP before that trip... hmmmm, memory is shot ;-) I booked our trip through Disney, but didn't read the materials. Back then (has the rule changed?), those travelers didn't have to wait to get additional FPs. We used FP, but not to the fullest extent we could have. Did I kick myself later for not knowing? Yeah, but it wasn't the end of the world. In today's HMO world, we've HAD to learn to CYA. And if one doesn't take the time to read the rules, oh well... Like barboy said, "You snooze, you lose." ;-)
Originally Posted By NJ AP Liveforvacations...do you know about the baby swap? Only one of you needs to stand in line then the other one uses a special pass to skip to the very end of the line. I agree, using the FP can make the wait time even shorter.
Originally Posted By ieguy Wow, I guess I never dreamed that FP would make so many people feel this way... I love FP! Being 22, I guess I have a clear memory of about half my life without FP and the other half with it.... and I wouldn't want them to get rid of it. When it first came out, I don't think I was sure how to utilize it to its full potential.. but now almost a decade after it's debut... I think I have finally mastered it. We usually use it for the larger rides like Space, Splash, Indy, etc. For most rides, I think it helps when you don't have to spend 2 hours in line. For example, I went just 4 days before Halloween and the place was packed. The wait time for HM was an hour and a half, using FP we waited about 3 minutes(!) outside in FP line and promptly entered the building and our waiting elevator (only to be stuck in that hallway before the loading area for about ten minutes, which has never happened before). Same for Space, which had a 1 hour and 45 minute wait, our time was cut down to about just ten minutes inside the queue (the hallways were all clear and we ended up running through it to the loading area....only to wait another 15 minutes while they searched for some stupid woman's iPhone that she just left in the ride car!) I think if you plan your day with FP in mind, but don't let it consume your fun, it works. Just plan your day to where you have plenty to do in between getting your passes and riding the rides, and it seems to work. I'd take a 10-30 minute wait over anything 45 minutes and up, any day. I'd be sad if they ever get rid of this feature. Don't punish those of us who know how to use it and benefit from it. It's really available to everyone, I don't see why people act like it's some special club.
Originally Posted By cheesybaby 1) Back to the OP, I noticed the same thing this weekend - got a FP for Space and the line on the bottom said I could get another FP in just 25 minutes from then. The window seems to have shrunk. 2) The thing I don't like about FP is that it requires you to walk to the same place twice (once to get the FP, then again later to ride the ride). This creates more congestion in the streets as more people are walking across the park. But most importantly, it destroys the continuity of the experience of each land. You used to spend a large chunk of time in a land, giving you time for the details of the theme and story to have an immersive effect on you. Now you just pass in and out of each land, going from individual ride to individual ride, and the real narrative of the park is destroyed.
Originally Posted By grumpster No comment on the overall FP system but can tell you that I just returned yesterday from a 3 day trip and the 25 minute window was available all 3 days, for rides at DL and DCA. Didn't make much of a difference to me as I wasn't about to go hiking to FP machines every 25 minutes.
Originally Posted By Park Hopper Personally, I’m ambivalent about fast pass. If it went away tomorrow, I wouldn’t cry. But while it’s here, I’m sure as heck going to use it. I’m not going to lie. I like being able to skip a few lines during the day. What I don’t like about fast pass: 1. It makes the stand-by lines unbearably long. If an attraction has fast pass, you pretty much have to use it or wait in a seemingly unending line that doesn’t move. A funny little bit of psychology about waiting in a line: if it constantly moves, then waiting in a long line isn’t so bad. Stand-by lines on fast pass attractions don’t move. But I’ve adapted to this. If I can’t get a fast pass for a fast pass attraction, then I don’t ride it. (with one exception—Space Mountain. I’ve been known to wait in the stand-by line for this attraction.) 2. Taking the above into account, if you decide to stop by Disneyland for an evening, you can forget about riding any of the fast pass attractions because most of the time, the fast passes are all gone for the day. Being an AP I used to sometimes stop by Disneyland for dinner and a couple of rides. I don’t do this anymore—mostly due to fast pass. But I’m probably better off. It’s much cheaper to eat at home and with the price of gas these days… These are my only real objections to fast pass. As I said, I use the system rigorously. I can see and understand that a lot of the guests at Disneyland don’t understand the system. I take full advantage of this to make my day go smoother, but unfortunately it’s at their expense. But it doesn’t bother me because I didn’t create the system. I am merely forced to work within it, and it does give me a definite advantage over the casual visitor. But as I said, if it went away tomorrow, I wouldn’t shed a single tear.
Originally Posted By danyoung >1. It regiments your day & splits people up< Only if you allow it to. As someone else said, I'll get a FP when I'm passing an attraction that has a long standby line. I make note of the return time, and come back by sometime after that time. No rushing, no splitting of the party. And I'm not going to get all fired up and try to keep a FP before the last one expires or all that nonsense. I only get one when I want to ride an attraction that has a long line. Beyond that I don't go even a little bit out of my way for it. >2. FastPass creates crowds, embitters Guests, and depends on ignorance.< Sorry, but I've always hated that argument. You make it sound like you need to be a rocket scientist to understand how to get a little ticket and use a shorter line. Newbies might be frustrated by FP until they make the incredibly complicated move of ASKING A CM about it, and learning how to use the system in a whopping 30 seconds or so. If people are standing in the standby line and getting ticked off cuz people are passing them by, then they need to open their eyes and figger out why all those special people are getting to pass them up. To sit there and grumble but continue to wallow in ignorance is simply foolish. Pre-FP, there were always attractions that I wouldn't think about getting in line for on a crowded day, like Splash, Space Mtn. or especially Indy. Now with FP I can ride my favorites without having to hit the parks at the crack of dawn, or be willing to blow 60 to 90 minutes waiting in line. >...FP is fair because anyone can use it, anyone can arrive early, etc., etc. That is a magnificent textbook theory. The problem? It IS NOT reality.< To use a juvenille argument - YES IT IS! There is an incredibly small percentage of people who know all the darkbeer rules and take advantage of the secrets of on network vs. off network machines, etc. By far most FP users just use the system as it's advertised. And those who choose to ignore the system and just use the standby lines get what they deserve - longer waits. And I'm still not convinced that today's standby lines are any longer than the old pre-FP lines. They move slower, but time wise they're just about as long. And no, I'm not about to faint, nor am I on any kind of a high horse on this. I just think FP is a terrific benefit, one that I've spent the (miniscule) time learing how to use effectively, and it greatly enhances my park storming time.
Originally Posted By danyoung >1. It makes the stand-by lines unbearably long. < As I said, I don't think today's standby lines are really any longer than yesterday's non-FP lines. But you did nail it with the fact that a slower moving line seems to take much longer than if it's zipping right along. >...if you decide to stop by Disneyland for an evening, you can forget about riding any of the fast pass attractions because most of the time, the fast passes are all gone for the day.< This is indeed a valid concern. I'm betting, though, that most people who stop in for the evening are annual passholders who get all kinds of time in the parks. The fact that on any given evening I can't ride Space Mountion shouldn't be that big of a concern, as I can just hit it next time. Overall I do think your two concerns have merit, but I don't see them as being big enough problems to warrant scrapping the system altogether.
Originally Posted By FerretAfros Does anybody know how FP affects park capacity? I would assume that it makes for more people out walking around (as has been said several times in this thread), which would mean that fewer people are physically standing in line somewhere. I would guess that this would mean that the fire chief (or whoever makes that decision) might be influenced to lower the maximum park capacity, which (at least on busy days) could easily affect their bottom line profits for the worse.
Originally Posted By Park Hopper >As I said, I don't think today's standby lines are really any longer than yesterday's non-FP lines.< I have a couple of observations to answer this. Not that either of them are concrete proof that stand-by lines are longer now then they were before fast pass, but I offer them just the same. Does anyone remember what the stand-by lines were like for Pirates while it still had fast pass? Just compare that to the way it is now. It seems like a big difference to me. I would also ask you to compare stand-by lines for Space Mountain and Matterhorn. I know Space Mountain is more popular but it also has a higher capacity, so I don’t think the comparison is completely out of line (no pun intended).
Originally Posted By NJ AP Who votes for a FP center, say near the hub or in town hall so we can do one stop shopping for our Fast Passes. This could be in addition to the one by the ride. This would alleviate the one poster's opinion that the FP system creates a bottleneck because it makes us visit the attraction twice.
Originally Posted By danyoung You could still only get 1 FP for each attraction at a time, so I'm not sure what this would fix. It would just give you one more location that you have to visit.
Originally Posted By StitchDude I think this is an interesting topic. I think most of the FP rides have a good thing going. Some of them are harder to accept. Take Autopia for instance. The stand-by line goes back and forth in the queue and is raised up higher than where the FP line splits. The people in stand by just watch the people go by and they watch the cars keep getting loaded. Then the FP people still have to wait in the Chevron room and then back across the platform and down the stairs. In this case it may not be that great. The other thing to remember is that Disney has people who time everything. They time how long it takes the CM's to load and unload the attractions, how long it takes to bring the vehicle into the station, etc. This is measured for all attractions. Then they go back and crunch the numbers and see what can be improved. If FP really did not work for all of these attractions, they would not be in use. They are not going to make the lines longer on purpose. if some people do not know how to us FP, or they split up their party to go get tickets, or become a slave to the times on the card, that is their fault. Fast passes work at the attraction where they have them and some of the attractions that do not have them would not work, like Nemo.
Originally Posted By serendipityaey Pirates is in a 'capacity' league of it's own. It did not need fastpass. Even when it re-opened, and I got in line at the hub, I only waited 45 minutes (taking the right side, of course, but they might've fixed that since then).
Originally Posted By monorailblue Aren't these threads fun? <<I have never, nor have I ever seen anyone, rush around like a maniac to get a FP. That sounds ridiculous.>> While I obviously cannot determine what you have or have not seen, maniacal FP users abound. The number of people who casually saunter up to Space Mountain and think, "Well laws a me! I think I'll get me a FastPass", as opposed to the number who come pushing and shoving, is wondrously low. <<I don't agree with the unwritten rule that a fastpass never expires and I think this is unfair as the average guest cannot expect to know this and it does create an unfair advantage. I know that people will think I am weird but even though I do know this, I never use an "expired" Fastpass because I just don't feel right about it!>> Grasp onto this concept of fairness and run with it! Shut your ears to the rest of this thread! <<The spontaneous things are most often the most enjoyable and memorable!>> No, sweetie, we can't ride Mr. Toad right now. We have FPs for Splash, and so have to slog out there. I know you want to stay here and ride Mr. Toad, but we can't. No, we can't do Space Mountain instead. All the FPs have been gone for hours. Yes, yes, I know we got FPs, but they aren't good for 6 more hours yet. Now come on. MOVE! <<As someone else said, I'll get a FP when I'm passing an attraction that has a long standby line. I make note of the return time, and come back by sometime after that time.>> SPOILER ALERT: A few years back, you might actually have decided to RIDE that Attraction right then and there which, just possibly, is why you would have been in its general vicinity. Hmmm. I don't quite know what to make of that. <<>2. FastPass creates crowds, embitters Guests, and depends on ignorance.< Sorry, but I've always hated that argument.>> Too bad. It is accurate. If 7000+ people per day are not in line at Space Mountain when they otherwise would be in line, they have to be somewhere. Where are they? Outer space? Are they all in a toilet stall? No. They are out in the walkways, or in line for another ride. Miracle of miracle! Now FP has made it less pleasant for the general folks to ride two Attractions! One has a non-moving, mind numbing, all-Guests-are-equal-but-some-Guests-are-more-equal-than-others "stand-by line", and the other has a longer line. Will the ecstasies never cease? <<Now with FP I can ride my favorites without having to hit the parks at the crack of dawn,>> Last time I was in the park with my family, FPs for Space for 11:00 p.m. were being handed out before 11:00 a.m. I guess you're right That is wonderful! <<And those who choose to ignore the system and just use the standby lines get what they deserve - longer waits.>> I don't think anyone "deserves" to wait longer so you don't have to wait. I think those who go to the Attraction "deserve" to wait the same amount of the time as the people who arrives immediately before and immediately after them. <<And I'm still not convinced that today's standby lines are any longer than the old pre-FP lines. They move slower, but time wise they're just about as long.>> Then you do not know what you are talking about. There was no such thing as a stand-by line before FP. For example, Peter Pan does not have a stand-by line. Neither does Jungle Cruise. As is obvious to the casual observer, the stand-by line of today is NOT the line of yesterday. It does not occupy the same space, does not move with the same speed, and is bypassed by a substantial percentage of riders. It isn't the same. It isn't even close to the same. As attested to by others (and by thousands of CMs who see these things without the entitlement mists in their eyes), it is most dreadfully not the same. <<If FP really did not work for all of these attractions, they would not be in use. They are not going to make the lines longer on purpose.>> You can read about it in detail elsewhere, but FP does not increase the average number of rides ridden. Indeed, while it has increased for some, it has dropped notably for many. The goal of FP is not and never has been to make lines shorter. It was introduced as a device to transfer queue waiting time to shops and restaurants. It was marketed as a way to get the most out of your day, but years of research confirms that people, on the whole, are not doing Attractions. ======== So, anyway, that's just my view. Obviously, it isn't the prevailing one. If we must endure FP and the entitlement mindset that generates it, let's at least make REASONABLE limitations: only X passes per day (3 is plenty—that's 3 "dreams" Disneyland is granting, after all), an enforceable and enforced expiration, and, from the beginning of the day, you could select from your choice of available return times—either at the FP location, or somewhere else. I can think of plenty of places to set this up: Plaza Pavilion, Carnation Plaza, Aladdin's Oasis, Starcade, Star Tours queue overflow (most days), most of DCA, etc.
Originally Posted By monorailblue (And missing words. And so forth. My eyes are weak, my head is drooping, and I've lost the will to fight. Stick me in a stand-by line, and forget about me.)
Originally Posted By danyoung >The number of people who casually saunter up to Space Mountain and think, "Well laws a me! I think I'll get me a FastPass", as opposed to the number who come pushing and shoving, is wondrously low.< I've been to DL enough over the years to say with some confidence that I simply dispute this statement. >They are out in the walkways, or in line for another ride.< This is a valid argument, and one that I don't really have an answer to. From a personal standpoint, I don't have any problem finding a queue that's short enough for me to enter while I'm waiting for my FP. So I guess either the problem doesn't really affect me or it's not large enough to even be a problem. >Last time I was in the park with my family, FPs for Space for 11:00 p.m. were being handed out before 11:00 a.m.< This is just not my experience. I have no trouble getting a FP for SM within a time that works for me. And remember, before FP, at 11am the line for SM would be at least an hour long - too long for me. >It does not occupy the same space, does not move with the same speed, and is bypassed by a substantial percentage of riders.< I never said the lines were exactly the same. I said it right there in the quote that you copied - "They move slower, but time wise they're just about as long." An hour wait in a FP line is an hour wait in a pre-FP line. The big difference, of course, is that the FP standby line moves much slower, which is a concern. For the most part I enjoy this discussion. But you seem to be getting worked up a bit, blue. Take a deep breath, remember I'm not the enemy, & feel free to respond.
Originally Posted By markcanada Personally, I'm very glad there was FastPass. We had our first family trip two and a half years ago, and then had our most recent one last month. It costs us thousands of dollars in hotel and airfare for us to get to Disneyland. If we miss something, we don't necessarily get the chance to come back another day. We would have had to make choices between Space Mountain, or Indiana Jones, or Splash, or at best, only get to do each once only. FastPass allowed us to get the most out of the parks as possible, going on the most rides, and not being stuck in lines any more than we had, which then frees us for rides without FP but still worth the wait (like PP or Matterhorn, for example). And all the info on FastPass isn't hidden, Disney puts it right on park maps, CM's will explain it, and there is lots of info and hints with the simplest google search. Plus, Disney is much more democratic -- once you are in the gates, no matter how you got in there (AP, one day pass), your eligibility for FP is the same. Compare this against Universal or Legoland who sell "front of the line" privilages as part of special, higher priced, passes, which gives those with more money the advantage. If there are longer lines, are those truly due to FastPass, or is that due to Disney marketing and increased attendance? And I think the open window needs to remain. What if I had FP's for Space with a narrow window, but I'm finally down to the last 15 minutes of the Nemo line? If I'm the rare visitor guest, should I have to choose one ride over the other, or is the flexibility Disney shows the right way to go? Now, I would be ok if there were two levels of FP - if you return within your window, you are front of the ilne, walk on, but if you are later than your window, you still have some wait, but not as bad as the standby line. I know, not feasible, but would make the system work a bit better for getting people to stick to their windows.
