Originally Posted By ChiMike >>Coming from someone who's worked at attractions with and without fastpass, it's amazing how much smoother and easier for both guests and cast the attractions run without it.<< Isn't it though! Some people either weren't around, don't have a strong enough memory, or simply don't care in the shadow of a 5 minute wait. The cast and guest dynamic was SO much stronger prior to Fastpass. Not just at the greeter position but on the midway and in the queues. Nothing is more obnoxious than watching people run down the midway on a FP run.
Originally Posted By Goofyernmost >>>>I will confess that I have done the same thing myself. I once went to Soarin early, got a fastpass and then saw that the standby line was short so I rode it. We got fastpasses for the whole family at that time. I went over to Test Track and used the single rider line and then had a snack. Went back for my fastpass window and rode it again. By this time the line was very long. I smilingly shot up the FP line and rode again. A member of our group decided that they didn't want to ride it again so they gave me theirs as well. So I got off the ride went back up the FP line and rode it for the third time. I actually could have done it two more times due to unused passes by our group. By then, however, I had wasted half my morning on one ride when there were so many other things to see. I'm just one person but I took the places of Three individuals on a ride that had a very long wait. Only one of those places was, in all fairness, mine. This cannot be good or what was envisioned when fastpass was conceived.<<<< Adding to my own post...not only did I use up three spaces but I also inadvertently took 3 to many fastpasses, depriving others of their chance. We never even though about giving them to strangers back then. Not intentional, but had the same result.
Originally Posted By sjhym333 I have posted this here several times but it bears repeating. I worked Soarin when the attraction changed from the old FP machines to the new ones so Soarin was without FP for 4 days. Before the change out the avg wait time was 60-90 mins. Four days without FP 30-45 mins, with the new FP machines 60-90. That was all in one week. The is this silly idea that FP does not affect the wait time for the Standby. It does. If Soarin did not have FP you would see the avg wait time drop dramatically. FP is and has always been a psycological shell game. Disney's own research shows that guests are not spenind any more money than they were pre-FP and guests are not averaging many more attractions than before.
Originally Posted By ChiMike SJHYM, thanks for your input! The thing people love to bring up is that FP is a service born out of Disney recognizing that 'its guests hate lines more than any other issue based on direct surveys!' Since Disney ALWAYS addresses what guests feel are the biggest detractors from a Disney Parks experience, based on these surveys, ta da, FP. What a great PR line!!! What really brought on FP was the idea that there would be a net gain in guest spending. All the huge costs of installing the system, installing the wait time tech w/ red cards, operating, stocking, maintaining the machines, and on some attractions staffing one or even two FP CM positions, all was justified through 'increased guest spending' not just on food but on theoretical merchandise sales. That is how it was sold and justified. What a joke! Folks aren't going to buy more Disney Parks hoodies because they have a FP in hand. Guests make their merchandise purchases in almost a pre-determined manner with a pre-determined budget in their subconscious. If they were going to spend $100 a day, they weren't going to now spend $250 a day because they need to sit around a wait for a return time on Maelstrom. Remember, this all came about during an era where Pressler was running things, he was a RETAIL guy, and the parks were looked at more than anything as some of the best Sales/SF retail space in the world. Disney WAS NOT going to spend that much money and continue to spend money on a system just so guests wouldn't storm City Hall any longer because they were so ANGRY about sitting in a 20 minuted Haunted Mansion queue.
Originally Posted By vbdad55 I've seen too many of the 'I bought it, so it's awesome, and you need to buy it too' members VB. I have not seen them on this site but on other internet sites. --- main reason I said you were around the wrong ones-- there are 100,000+ families now- there are going to be some boneheads. These same boneheads are likely to sell you AMWAY , 50 kinds of life insurance and whatever else they're hooked on. But they are far from the majority or even really noticeable. I know none personally ( and I know a lot of DVC owners)- and if I did run across ones like you mention, I would walk away from them or not engage them just as I would anyone else trying to oversell anything
Originally Posted By vbdad55 But for the most part, I believe in the 'free market' of theme parks and wait times ---- I believe in the power of education..whether it's using FP @ Disney, knowing what subway to take in New York ( and what one not to take)- what restaurant to eat in in Chicago, the benefits of becoming a Zoo member or museum member vs the cost... I didn;t spend my life educatingmyself on situations around me to just have everything be random... we will choose to differ on this.. that's OK
Originally Posted By vbdad55 An artificial, negative effect on Standby waits. If that alone doesn't prove my point I don't know what does. I will keep plugging away though. --- still only theoretical as you have no way of knowing ( nor do I ) what future decisions are made by each attendee based on stand by lines.. so I am still not buying it as an absolute - this is not 1+1=2 there are other factors as I have stated
Originally Posted By vbdad55 And you are a conservative VBDad? You sure??? Think of FP as the evil union! --- nope a tried an true moderate..which is why I guess I do see both sides of an argument- not just solidify all my support behind one Not all unions are bad- but indeed some care nothing for the brethren, only what's at stake for the leaders- including perceived pride and absolute power. Unions had their time and place in America- I do believe for the most part a lot of that has past- however if it were to return ( the reasons for unions in the first place)- then they would have a place again as powerful as before. I believe they do as much harm as good today- for the same reasons CSO's do the same thing... absolute power corrupts- absolutely
Originally Posted By vbdad55 Coming from someone who's worked at attractions with and without fastpass, it's amazing how much smoother and easier for both guests and cast the attractions run without it. ---- it's easy to walk off a cliff also- doesn;t make it the best solution. But I know America these days likes the EASY button - which is why we've become a 2nd class education and manufacturing power
Originally Posted By HokieSkipper <<it's easy to walk off a cliff also- doesn;t make it the best solution. But I know America these days likes the EASY button - which is why we've become a 2nd class education and manufacturing power>> Huh? I think you're generalizing and reading a little far into my post, VB. The whole process goes smoother without FP and the vast majority of guests are happier on attractions without it.
Originally Posted By CDF1 "I worked Soarin when the attraction changed from the old FP machines to the new ones so Soarin was without FP for 4 days. Before the change out the avg wait time was 60-90 mins. Four days without FP 30-45 mins, with the new FP machines 60-90. That was all in one week. The is this silly idea that FP does not affect the wait time for the Standby. It does. If Soarin did not have FP you would see the avg wait time drop dramatically. FP is and has always been a psycological shell game." The above quote from post #43 seems to sum things up nicely: 1. FP causes longer wait times in the "standby" line (or simply "the line") for any attraction when it is available for that ride. 2. It is a shell game - the guest chooses to play the game by getting an FP and then works around the FP time in terms of when to ride, what other FPs to get, etc. This is balanced against current standby times and what the most desired attractions for that guest are. 3. The "Machievellian" dark side of Fastpass, that being that some guests could be given unlmited FPs or numerous FPs to avoid waiting in any standby lines based upon paying higher hotel or resort fees which puts them above the normal rank and file guests has not seemed to be developed at WDW parks - Universal has been the ones to link "no wait" or "privileged" access packages to their hotels but until Potter came along seemingly that feature wasn't denting Disney at all. Anyway, at Disney it doesn't seem to be happening now. 4. If one is attending a Disney park in the hot summer months, then at Fastpass might provide a break from standing in a very long and hot line. Test Track seems like a prime example to me - the line before FP ever came along was always long and at least with FP your wait is only some 10-15 mins instead of multiple hours. Same with Splash or Space Mt. at MK - with FP at least you get a chance to ride without a huge wait. And of course, with the new Star Tours, FPs for those rides are pretty much mandatory, are they not? 5. IMO, they should offer a "universal" FP dispensing station where they have the posted ride time boards at the end of the entrance areas to parks (Main Street hub, Epcot courtyard in Future World, Tree of Life in DAK) - at least then a family that wanted to get an FP to one of the more popular attractions could get those FPs together at the start of the day rather than having to send runners out to the far-flung reaches of the park (again, Splash and Space Mt's at MK prime examples or perhaps the Safari or EE rides at DAK).
Originally Posted By sjhym333 I would suggest that Test Track would today move faster without FP then before. It took Disney awhile to figure out the loading system for TT and they now have it down to a science. By loading all three preshows in a staggered amount, they would be able to keep a single line moving along rather nicely.
Originally Posted By ChiMike >> that being that some guests could be given unlmited FPs or numerous FPs to avoid waiting in any standby lines based upon paying higher hotel or resort fees which puts them above the normal rank and file guests has not seemed to be developed at WDW parks << A system that makes FP more integral to a Disney Parks experience is coming. It will more than likely give priority to a Resort Guest over an off property or local guest. >>And of course, with the new Star Tours, FPs for those rides are pretty much mandatory, are they not?<< Nope. >>IMO, they should offer a "universal" FP dispensing station where they have the posted ride time boards at the end of the entrance areas to parks (Main Street hub, Epcot courtyard in Future World, Tree of Life in DAK) - at least then a family that wanted to get an FP to one of the more popular attractions could get those FPs together at the start of the day rather than having to send runners out to the far-flung reaches of the park (again, Splash and Space Mt's at MK prime examples or perhaps the Safari or EE rides at DAK).<< Ohh my gosh! That would make it worse! Perhaps less chaos at ride entrances, but then another area of the park is turned into a feeding frenzy. I agree with you about a reduction of the runners, which is something that irks me, but man, then the concept is really warped. The idea was that people get in a virtual line at the ride's entrance, now they don't even have to do that. I stand by Goofy's point. The best solution is the simplest. Remove it.
Originally Posted By leobloom DCA's Midway Mania doesn't have FP, but MGM's does, right? Anyone know how wait times compare at the two parks? (My impression is that the waits are longer at MGM -- perhaps more riders per day or does FP have an impact on the wait times at the two parks?)
Originally Posted By sjhym333 FP has a major impact on Toy Story Midway. From just past opening the attraction had 90 min plus waits all day.
Originally Posted By leobloom I knew that it has incredibly long standby waits at MGM, but I don't think the waits are as bad at DCA -- maybe because there are other, more popular attractions or maybe because there's no FP on the ride there?
Originally Posted By ChiMike Leo you are correct. Dca avgs at about 45 mins but often you can find it as low as 30. Sjhym is correct in pointing out that once mgm's opens it pretty much stays up with no relief until close. This specific dynamic of maxing out in the morning can all be attributed to fastpass. Both attractions have the same capacity
Originally Posted By sjhym333 I think Midway is one of those attractions that would be best without FP. I find that even the FP side can be one of the longer waits among the FP attractions. I think you would see a more managable 45 min wait without FP
Originally Posted By Bolna ChiMike, wow I am sure you have written the complete guide to why Fastpass is evil in this thread now! I was in your camp even before I read your posts, but now I am even more convinced. The one aspect which I had never thought about is that the effect one has on wait times by being in two attraction lines at the same time. And I find myself using Fastpass less and less after several trips. It kind of pushes you into running around and riding certain attractions too often. Crush's Coaster at DLP does not have FP but constantly long lines - on a weekday in March 50-60 minutes all day until just before closing (we went in five minutes before the park closed and waited 30 minutes). It actually isn't that great a ride anyway, but standing in line once is ok and it makes the experience way more special - even though I generally hate waiting in lines.
Originally Posted By 3disneylocations CHARLIE CHRIST!!! 59 posts on Fast Pass pros & Cons?! Really? Disney isn't going to get rid of the system people. Get over it! Now someone start a churros thread & move on...
