Originally Posted By Hans Reinhardt "I will have to ask about that, but it is possible, if you need 2.2 million to get to 7 million that is only less than a third extra of your regular daily attendance." You mean 1.2 million, right?
Originally Posted By Hans Reinhardt "Also, don't forget, that the 2001 estimated attendance was based on no more AP's being sold, very limited ParkHoppers and restricted Comps and Cast Member sign ins." That was clearly a TDA decision. The annual estimate was like estabished in Burbank. But who cares about that now? That's like pulling out statistics for DL back in 1955.
Originally Posted By Hans Reinhardt "And lets not forget the 2f1. That is sooo often overlooked by the DCA apologists." Yeah, kind of like the fact that the critics never seem to mention the fact that the 2f1 program benefits DL too. You keep forgetting that a customer doesn't get one park without the other in that promotion. "And they call us critics irritating!" Only because the arguments haven't changed since 2001 or before. We all get it: DCA sucks.
Originally Posted By Darkbeer Let's look at the history of the revised "SoCal" special that started in 2001. At first it was a 2 day NON park hopping ticket for a few dollars more than a single day price, they tried different pricing points anywhere from $10-$25 more. Also, in 2001 and early 2002, you could use both days at Disneyland, and were not required to attend DCA at all. In the fall of 2002, they had the 2-day ticket for $54 ($9 more than a single day ticket), but this time it was one day at Disneyland, and one day at DCA. Well, the ticket sellers at the main gate would explain the offer when asked if there were any SoCal specials (and they have signs at the ticket windows saying to ask about the SoCal specials), but many folks decided to just get a single day ticket to DL, and not bother to pay the extra $9. The folks at TDA were not happy with the numbers, even though Flik's Fun Fair had just opened. Well, in early 2003, the "Pay for Disneyland, get DCA for free" ticket was announced, now just $47, the same price as a one-day ticket. This offer started in early January, and expired in mid-May.... well, now when the guests went to the ticket window, and asked about the special, they were told for NO extra charge they could get a 2-day ticket (some asked for just a discounted DL only ticket, but were told those tickets are not discounted), so folks ended up with a 2-day whether they wanted it or not. Well, these folks went to Disneyland for the day... and then put the ticket on the fridge, or somewhere else... and then folks realized that the ticket to DCA was about to expire..... so many folks in fact that Disney had to extend DCA hours, staffing , and offer extra showings of shows for the last three weekends of the deal(No such additions were added to Disneyland). This really drove up DCA's numbers in May. They have since made adjusmtnes, such as the 30 day fuse and this year removed the "hard" last day of use, due to the large crowds DCA got that weekend (now everyone gets 30 days from first use, even if you go the first time in APril). The ticket has clearly helped drive folks to DCA...
Originally Posted By 9oldmen >>Yeah, kind of like the fact that the critics never seem to mention the fact that the 2f1 program benefits DL too. You keep forgetting that a customer doesn't get one park without the other in that promotion.<< Except that you have those 45 plus years when Disneyland mangaged to get by on its own just fine. Besides things like 2fers and AP admissions which were not part of the original equation from back in 2001, you also have things like: All the money they had to spend to get things like TOT and Flik's on the fast track. They were NOT planning on having to add those in so soon. Add to that, you have all the money that was supposed to be going into the cash registers at Hollywood and Dine and SOB, and you know that guests are not spending money IN the park either. All that PLUS what happened with Wolfgang Puck and Mondavi, and you don't need insider knowledge to know that the place is still in trouble.
Originally Posted By Darkbeer Just went to eBay, and found a bunch of 2fer tickets for sale, selling the DCA part (the seller used the Disneyland day already) selling for $5 to $20, one ticket is just over $11 and the auction ends in just a few minutes. Of course, I couldn't find one ticket that the seller used the DCA day and is selling the Disneyland part...
Originally Posted By Hans Reinhardt “Let's look at the history of the revised "SoCal" special that started in 2001.†And why stop there? If you want to look at the big picture of ticket promotions why not just go all the way back to July 17, 1955 and compare admissions media then to today? Back then you could basically walk in the door for about $2.00 and tickets for each attraction were sold separately. Clearly things have changed, and guess what? Attendance at DL has increased accordingly over the years. It's a business, and that's what businesses do, constantly rework their strategies to increase sales. What does the history of the DLR admissions media circa 2001 is have to do with the argument that the 2f1 promotion benefits both parks today? "They have since made adjusmtnes, such as the 30 day fuse and this year removed the "hard" last day of use, due to the large crowds DCA got that weekend (now everyone gets 30 days from first use, even if you go the first time in APril). Well of course they've made adjustments. The park didn't do as well as planned. The success of the 2f1 promotion has lead to some tweaks since its inception. More than likely additional changes to it and other admissions media will happen in the years to come. So? "The ticket has clearly helped drive folks to DCA..." And DL's too. DL's attendance dropped dramatically, albeit not as much as DCA's, after the promotion ended last year. From that one can readily argue that both parks benefit from an increase in attendance generated by the promotion. It's okay, though, Darkbeer. You've made up your mind about DCA, and that's fine. I'm certainly not trying to change that (or care, really). However, you posts and comments would be more compelling if you would at least try to be reasonable in your assessment of the situation. You are so clearly biased, and this bias is manifested in your rather unusual obsession with fishing out any detail you can to bash the place. Post #66 is the perfect example of what I'm talking about. “Except that you have those 45 plus years when Disneyland mangaged to get by on its own just fine.†It didn’t get along just fine without special offers. There were all sorts of admissions promotions long before DCA was ever dreamed of – from the Magic Kingdom Club to Southern California resident discounts.
Originally Posted By DlandDug Not wishing to take up sides here, I do not feel that post #66 was simply a put down, but rather an anecdotal example of why it is wrong to claim that 2fers benefit Disneyland as much as DCA. I will add that comparing anything from 1955-1982 to today's ticketing and promotions is quite a stretch. When passports replaced individual tickets, quantifying value for money was completely altered.
Originally Posted By trekkeruss I look at it this way: if the 241 offer causes people to buy a ticket, it benefits Disney, regardless if they use one day, two days, or no day at all. That someone chooses to sell the DCA portion on eBay has little meaning, because Disney already got the money.
Originally Posted By Darkbeer >>I look at it this way: if the 241 offer causes people to buy a ticket, it benefits Disney, regardless if they use one day, two days, or no day at all. That someone chooses to sell the DCA portion on eBay has little meaning, because Disney already got the money.<< Yes, it does hurt Disney.... As mentioned earlier, they tried to have the 2fer ticket at a price higher than a 1 day Disneyland ticket, but not very many SoCal's were buying it, so they went to giving away DCA to those folks who walk up to the Ticket Windows and were looking for a discounted ticket to Disneyland. So now you have these folks not returning, but instead, selling to a another party, people that if they couldn't get a deal on eBay could easily have gone to Disneyland for a day at $63. Disney got rid of the "two days free" Advance Purchase promotion due to the fact that so many folks were selling unused days on eBay, and switched to promotions like Everybody at the Kids Price and additional days for an extra $10 or $20 to stop the practice of folks using 3 days, and selling the 2 free days. Disney does watch eBay and looks for ticket numbers, and actively voids tickets they can prove was sold against their rules. They do care...
Originally Posted By Hans Reinhardt "So now you have these folks not returning, but instead, selling to a another party, people that if they couldn't get a deal on eBay could easily have gone to Disneyland for a day at $63." SOME people are not returning. The only thing lost is the potential revenue that would have been generated had those people come back. Disney has already collected their money for the half priced admission, thus there is a presumed gain over the number of tickets sold had the promotion not been in effect during the given promotion period. The 2f1 promotion is only slightly different than the annual passes that many theme parks sell for slightly double the cost of a single admission. I would imagine that the crucial point for Disney is how many people chose to return versus those who do not. Given that the promotion keeps returning every year, one has to assume that the revenue from 2f1 ticket purchases combined with spending from returning visitors outweighs the potential loses from non-returnees. Obviously the entire property is generating more revenue from the campaign than it would have otherwise, which is the whole point of the promotion in the first place.
Originally Posted By disneywatcher I would guess the 2-for-1 deal probably is a loss leader for the DisCo, the whiff of a tacky-promotion deal like K-mart's Blue Light Special. From that standpoint, it does seem quite suitable for DCA. It would have a bit less of a K-mart-ish quality about it if the DisCo at least offered the 2-fer ticket for slightly more than -- say, at least around $5 to $10 more than -- the price of entrance to Disneyland alone, and got enough takers for that kind of deal.
Originally Posted By trekkeruss Um, offering a 241 for $5 or $10 more wouldn't be a 241, now would it?
Originally Posted By DlandDug >>Um, offering a 241 for $5 or $10 more wouldn't be a 241, now would it?<< No it wouldn't. But it would certainly help in clearing up the controversy over whether the present system solely benefits DCA. It is, indeed, impossible to "prove" that DCA is being offered for free, or that admission to each park is being offered at half price. It is, nonetheless, evident from anecdotal information (such as the sale of DCA portions at greatly reduced rates), that DCA is perceived as the weak sister of the 2 for 1 promotion.
Originally Posted By trekkeruss <<DCA is perceived as the weak sister>> I don't think there is a sole alive that believes otherwise... and you could leave out the word percieved even. DCA *is* the weak sister to DL; no one denies that.
Originally Posted By ChurroMonster Fact: DCA is in the top ten most attended theme parks in the country. Where that attendance comes from is a matter of discussion but DCA's popularity is actually quite strong. Is it a "worthy" second gate to Disneyland? I don't know. It's all subjective. Is there room for improvement? Absolutely. There are huge sections of the park I really don't like at all and I hope they are removed or drastically changed. But I still have fun in DCA. I really like going back and forth between DCA and Disneyland. Could I spend a whole day in DCA? Not without getting tremendously bored. I don't care because I can just go over to Disneyland or Downtown Disney. I simply don't get the level of anger and bitterness represented by those who bash DCA on a daily basis. It's a theme park. A theme park. Surely there are more important things in life to get upset over. I hope.
Originally Posted By gadzuux We talk about theme parks - theme parks - here. It's just what we do. Not everyone shares the same opinion on DCA, which is fine - it'd be a pretty dull board if everybody agreed that everything was wonderful.
Originally Posted By DlandDug What is particularly upsetting to many people is the great lost opportunity that DCA represents. There will ever be only one time and place to build the second gate at the Disneyland Resort, the complement, if you will, to the first theme park, and the only one that Walt Disney himself conceived, built, and spent ten years refining. That what we got was Disney's California Adventure is testament to the short sighted, penny pinching, unimaginative leadership that helmed the Walt Disney Company at that crucial moment in time. Upset? Goodness, that barely scratches the surface.
Originally Posted By trekkeruss <<Upset? Goodness, that barely scratches the surface.>> I can understand being disappointed, and even a little angry, but beyond upset? There are far too many things in this world to be truly upset and outraged about than a theme park. IMO of course.
