Originally Posted By YourPalEd Oh yeah, taxes, w2 of course. I almost forgot. It's been so long since i've had to work for someone else for money. It's so much easier to be honest and own as little as possible. Of course if i was ultra rich i would by a personal submarine, one of those i saw with the thick plexiglass window in front, that also doubles as a regular cutter hull. I did a quick search, and they had a 22 guest, 12 to 16 and a 6 to 8 sized sub. For some reason they didn't list the prices, i sort of was curious. I guess i could have always inquired but i didn't want to be disappointed by the real world others have created for me.
Originally Posted By vbdad55 you know that crazy thing the government sends you to tell you how much money you have earned and paid or owe taxes on --
Originally Posted By Beaumandy <<I've addressed that before. I'm not talking about the pattern monitoring. I'm talking about the listening in on specific phone calls - because that's going on without warrants also.>> What specific calls? How do you know they are not getting warrants for individual calls once they have found a pattern? Why did 6 courts say the program was legal? Why are you worried about warrants when NOBODY has shown any damage from this program except the terrorists? You might be taken serious if you had a few examples of people having their civil rights violated by being " spyed " on without a warrant. Instead you have nothing but words that help the terrorists who would like nothing more than to level Frisco or DL. But the left is so intellecual and advanced. They just can't get anyone to give them a good debate because the right is so stupid as the right wins national election after national election.
Originally Posted By Dabob2 <What specific calls? How do you know they are not getting warrants for individual calls once they have found a pattern?> That's just the rub. They invoke secrecy and we don't know if they've gotten warrants or not. But we can be pretty sure they're listening to specific calls without warrants, because they've claimed the right to do so.
Originally Posted By Beaumandy <<That's just the rub. They invoke secrecy and we don't know if they've gotten warrants or not. But we can be pretty sure they're listening to specific calls without warrants, because they've claimed the right to do so.>> And you have been harmed how by this? I know for a FACT the NSA program has stopped terror attacks that would have killed Americans. Yet here you are telling us we should stop or change the program so it's worhtless because you THINK something MIGHT be going on that is illegal.
Originally Posted By RoadTrip <<I know for a FACT the NSA program has stopped terror attacks that would have killed Americans. >> Cool. When did the NSA and US Government start sharing its Top Secret information with you?
Originally Posted By Beaumandy The NSA program stopped terrorist from blowing up the Brooklyn bridge and it helped stop the terror plot a few weeks back that was trying to blow up 10 large jet liners. Come on RT. Keep up with us conservatives who just are not intellectual enough for jon and the libs.
Originally Posted By Dabob2 <And you have been harmed how by this?> I'm sure the government isn't interested in me. That's not the point. (But considering what you've said about Hillary, Pres. Hillary might be interested in YOU.) <I know for a FACT the NSA program has stopped terror attacks that would have killed Americans.> RT nailed that one. And I'll add: you certainly don't know that they stopped anything with a warrantless search of the type we're objecting to that they couldn't have stopped with a warranted search. FISA has turned down all of 4 requests for warrants in 30 years. They don't turn down legitimate requests.
Originally Posted By Beaumandy << FISA has turned down all of 4 requests for warrants in 30 years. They don't turn down legitimate requests. >> That is irrelevant. It's not about getting warrants. You can get warrants all day long but that is not going to help you track calling patterns, which is wht the NSA program is.. tracking calling patterns. You are like many libs who live in a would of conspriacies and hysteria. Give me a few actual cases where people like you and me have been spyed on by the governemnt then I will say you have apoint. Even then I could care less if they listen to my phone calls.
Originally Posted By RoadTrip <<The NSA program stopped terrorist from blowing up the Brooklyn bridge and it helped stop the terror plot a few weeks back that was trying to blow up 10 large jet liners.>> I couldn't find any indication that the Brooklyn Bridge plot was stopped by tapping phone lines. It seems to have been stopped by an old fashioned physical search: <<At the end of the day, if the court papers are to be believed, Faris never actually succeeded in committing any acts of terrorism and his work for the terror group apparently ended in March 2003 with Mohammed’s apprehension. (Sources tell NEWSWEEK that Mohammed did not at first volunteer Faris’s name. But cell phones and computer discs found in Mohammed’s Pakistani safe house enabled U.S. authorities to identify Faris—and a number of other operatives in the United States—and Mohammed eventually confirmed his contacts with the truck driver.)>> Source: <a href="http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3067877/site/newsweek/" target="_blank">http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/30 67877/site/newsweek/</a> As for the recent airplane thing I could have SWORN that it was the Brits who figured that one out.
Originally Posted By YourPalEd Since they have already done these wiretaps without the warrants, i want the warrants to now be written. I want to see how every penny of my tax payer money has been spent, even if i haven't worked for years, and haven't gotten a w2 in over er 10 Years, 9 years ago? impossible, it seems like yesterday, i quit my job and started playing diablo, and starcraft 20 hours a day. If osama hadn't of come along i might have never have woke up. Not even for just this minute or two. I think hibernating with a laptop is so comfortable. What else do you need? Stick me in a space capsule with my laptop, and keep the place warm with oxygen, and the other bodily stuff. Where would you like to go? How about mars? Let's go to mars, before they change it from a planet to a giant asteroid in status.
Originally Posted By Beaumandy <<I couldn't find any indication that the Brooklyn Bridge plot was stopped by tapping phone lines. It seems to have been stopped by an old fashioned physical search:>> Then you didn't look very hard. The NSA program picked up the words Brookly bridge many times and this raised a red flag. This was how they were tipped off. <<As for the recent airplane thing I could have SWORN that it was the Brits who figured that one out.>> We worked with the Brits and Pakistan to stop that attack. I don't get why libs want to stop a program that works. A program that saves lives, a rpgram that keeps us all safer. This is the number one reason to not vote for them and RT, it's the very reason you voted for Bush in 2004 ..remember.
Originally Posted By RoadTrip <<This is the number one reason to not vote for them and RT, it's the very reason you voted for Bush in 2004 ..remember.>> I have no problem with the Patriot Act even though many liberals do. But when the Administration starts doing this secret stuff of questionable legality, that is going too far. Is it worth giving away freedoms that 100s of thousands of American service men and women have died protecting to prevent even a horrible attack like 9/11? Sorry, but I don't think so.
Originally Posted By Beaumandy << I have no problem with the Patriot Act even though many liberals do. But when the Administration starts doing this secret stuff of questionable legality, that is going too far. >> Secret stuff RT? Why not get a clue and see the " secret " stuff we used to do during wartime. You know, back when the NY Times didn't tell the Germans we were about to invade. The funny thing about you is that if Mohammed the terrorist destroyed teh Mall of America and killed 30,000 people you would be so pissed you would DEMAND we do ANYTHING to get these scumbags. But not now for you... now you are playing little games where we need to be sure we don't offend anyone or we don't listen to phone calls, or we don't watch someone at the library. Sadly, the country is going to need another massive attack until they wake up ans get out of moron mode. Bush has never taken his eye off the ball while the donks are all running around telling us we have lost our civil rights... Civil rights don't mean much if you are dead. Thing is , we have lose ZERO civil rights. Want to die? Vote for the demcorats.
Originally Posted By YourPalEd I would like to see everyone who had a warrant taken out on them vindicated. I mean after all that money if someone was found to be excruciatingly honest, wouldn't you like to let the world know. I mean, what if you are an employer, and someone has been searched completely, with the wiretaps, and other complex technical devices, and they aren't a terrorist, but an honest person? Why that info could prove quite valuable to someone with a profession that requires honest people around, in an environment that corrupts.
Originally Posted By SingleParkPassholder "RT, "standing" means that a Federal judge can only hear the case if cases like it have been tried before. The prson bringing the case must also show that they have been harmed. Neither of these conditions were met when the Jimmy Carter, ACLU judge decided to go activist anti Bush and ban the NSA program... for starters. Besides, do you want to learn or do you want to play little games?" If anyone needs to learn it would be beau, but we established THAT long ago. This is NOT the definition of standing. I don't know where beau got this gibberish about a federal judge and if cases like it have been "tried before", but this is as good a laugh as I've had in the last few days. We covered standing many times in the gay marriage threads, and so this proves yet again beau doesn't read posts, he just spouts off whatever he's told by his puppeteers. Standing is the legal right to bring a lawsuit. To be a plaintiff, a person must prove that the act he is complaining about can actually harm or affect him in some measurable way. If beau actually read Judge Taylor's opinion, and I did provide it, she went over how she felt the plaintiffs had proper standing. Among other things, she felt they would be unable to conduct overseas phone calls in the course of their jobs and the person they were talking with would be unable to talk freely if the government was listening in on the conversations. There would be a "chilling effect". Matter of fact, in this case, they had to overcome a mere chilling effect and show more. Here's another, very basic example of standing as it relates to gay marriage. A straight person has no standing to challenge a law banning gay marriage. The straight person will choose another straight of the opposite sex, conforming to the laws. The straight person suffers no harm nor is affected by this law, and has no legal right (standing) to bring suit challenging the law. A gay person does have standing, because their rights have been affected by the law. Thanks for the belly laugh. I needed it.
Originally Posted By Beaumandy Keep laughing because if you really read this judges decision you would see that " standing " means nothing to her because she is more interested in making political statements against Bush. She totally blows off standing and she bases her decision on nothing. She has 40 pages of drivel that anyone who has half a brain can see is flawed... yet here you are STILL defending her. When it gets overturned you will see this thread reposted. Then you can laugh at how duped you were again... and 80% of your lawyer buds!
Originally Posted By Dabob2 <<< FISA has turned down all of 4 requests for warrants in 30 years. They don't turn down legitimate requests. >> <That is irrelevant. It's not about getting warrants.> Huh? That's only the subject. <You can get warrants all day long but that is not going to help you track calling patterns, which is wht the NSA program is.. tracking calling patterns.> How many times do you need to be told that the program is about both patterns AND listening in on particular calls? About as many times as I'm predicting you'll need to be told what "standing" is and what it isn't.
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