Originally Posted By Kennesaw Tom The Kyoto Treaty also does nothing to decrease the use of Nuclear Powered generation of electricity. Meanwhile, France continues to "dump" their nuclear waste off the shores of Tahiti. And countries like Iran and North Korea want to expand their nuclear power generation ( Yea Right!).
Originally Posted By fkurucz >>The Kyoto Treaty really isn't about decreasing "greenhouse gases". If it was then why are the two fastest growing Industrialized nations exempt; India and China?<< Correct. I didn't make any sense to me either. Perhaps the hope was that these two would eventually sign on.
Originally Posted By fkurucz >>The Kyoto Treaty also does nothing to decrease the use of Nuclear Powered generation of electricity. Meanwhile, France continues to "dump" their nuclear waste off the shores of Tahiti.<< I would think that it would encourage the use of fission reactors. Anyway, at the end of the day we have get the electricity from somewhere. We already "know" that: Fossil fuels are bad. Nuke generated power is bad. Hydro power is bad. That doesn't leave much else. Wind power is nice, but it can't be the main source of power. Pick your poison.
Originally Posted By Kennesaw Tom How about a sustainable future? Why not make homes MORE energy efficient? Who is all this power generation really helping? Think about it, we cool our home, we heat our homes. Da..... how about if we have to cool and heat our homes less? Why are we so dependent on our own auto transportation. Why isn't there more time efficient, energy wise public transportation. Individually we can do a lot to solve our nations "addicition" to energy. But collectively we can certainly accomplish a lot more. My home town ( where I was born ) has four hydroelectric plants in it. We have the most efficient waste incinerator in the world ( build by a company owned by Joe Kennedy, Ted's older son ). To think that here we are in 2006 we are so dependent on foreign oil is pathetic. The real answer is that EVERYTHING has to be on the table to solve our countries energy needs. We need to consider hydro, wind, geothermal and solar energy opportunities. We need to better conserve the energy requirements of our living spaces. We need to think more wisely about how we use energy and dispose of waste.
Originally Posted By Beaumandy >>The Kyoto Treaty really isn't about decreasing "greenhouse gases". If it was then why are the two fastest growing Industrialized nations exempt; India and China?<< Because the Kyoto treaty and the entire man made global warming scam is a way to attack American capitalism and people like you and me who dare drive in our cars. The " science " these people like Al Gore and his LP fan jon push is totally absurd. It is all fantasy. Just ask them to prove their theory and watch the spin begin. Ask them to explain the fact that Mars is hotter now or that it was hotter in the 1930's and watch the spin begin. Yet you will notice in the end these people always push us to give up our cars as we just saw with jon's last post. In the end you have people pushing this garbage that are far left " America is bad " people and groups that are trying to secure funding ( BILLIONS of dollars! ) to do more "research".
Originally Posted By Kennesaw Tom Beaumandy I'm not buying into the glabal warming scare either. But I do firmly believe that its in our countries best intrest to create a more sustainable energy future for America. To remain as dependent we are on foreign sources of energy is not in our national best intrest. We simply MUST come up with a more rational way of using coserving and consuming energy. It really bothers me when I hear people saying that they spend between $300 or more a month on their cooling or heating bill. Thats money that is just being wasted. I work for a utility company and when I walk up to the side of someone home that has three, four or five whole house air conditioning units you have to ask if maybe this mega mansion building tread is really not in our nations best intrest. When most cars on the highway are massive SUVs and we're all park on the freeway during rush hour. I really don't see how an SUV is going to protect anyone better in traffic going 5 miles an hour. Is all this "luxury stuff" necessary? Sometimes bigger and more expensive isn't better. Sometimes its just bigger and more expensive. If people were out buying diamonds, gold ect.. I wouldn't have a problem with it... but to just throw money continuely, routinely, monthly at your utilities is truely wasteful. What a pity.
Originally Posted By Kennesaw Tom Its times like these and topics like this when you ask yourself if your the ony sane person in the room. Am I the ony one that would rather save a buck to spend elsewhere ( like a Disney vacation ) then spend it on my utility bills?
Originally Posted By fkurucz >>Its times like these and topics like this when you ask yourself if your the ony sane person in the room. Am I the ony one that would rather save a buck to spend elsewhere ( like a Disney vacation ) then spend it on my utility bills?<< I agree. Our house is pretty efficient. Even though its twice as big as our previous house, it costs less to heat and cool. I'ld say that the worse our electric or gas bill ever gets is $150, and that's for almost 4000 sq ft. The trick is getting older houses improved. When we visit friends on SoCal during the "cold" months I find it sad that the central heat kicks in when its in the 50's outside (our heater usually doesn't kick in until its in the 30's outside). That's how poorly insulated most older houses are in SoCal. Extra insulation goes a long way, but its hard to retrofit older houses. It sometimes requires replacing all windows with dual glazed glass ($$$) and getting more insulation into the walls is also tedious.
Originally Posted By Beaumandy << Am I the ony one that would rather save a buck to spend elsewhere ( like a Disney vacation ) then spend it on my utility bills? >> Hey Ken, I take my SUV to DL from Oregon. Talk about spending some money!! Now I am going to get a Chevy Tahoe and take that baby with the family to DL next month. I like the fact that if I want to drive this SUV I can. We also have a regular car that gets good gas milage. It just isn't as fun to drive. I am all for new forms of energy. Just don't tell me that my SUV is causing global warming and that we can't drill for oil in Alaska or anywhere else in America where we have enough oil to last us for 100 years or more! We also have enough coal to last for hundreds of years.
Originally Posted By Beaumandy <<I agree. Our house is pretty efficient. Even though its twice as big as our previous house, it costs less to heat and cool. I'ld say that the worse our electric or gas bill ever gets is $150, and that's for almost 4000 sq ft.>> Wow! That is amazing... and a big house!
Originally Posted By vbdad55 <I agree. Our house is pretty efficient. Even though its twice as big as our previous house, it costs less to heat and cool. I'ld say that the worse our electric or gas bill ever gets is $150, and that's for almost 4000 sq ft. < Yes the houses are efficient as my electric bills are in that same range for a just slightly larger sq footage -- and that is 2 central air units. Sometimes 2 units running moderately are way more efficient than 1 huge one trying to keep up - plus the way they are 'zoned' you can have different temps in different parts of the house. It is the natural gas bill that just kills me -- and in Chicago for 5 months a year you need heat. My 'budget' plan is just under $300 / mo - every month...or else the winter bills like January are $600 and up. But before we rage on the McMansions...it's the energy inneficient 700 sq ft 50 year old and older homes that are paying as much as I am - as the heat seeps out the windows and doors that I'd be trying to fix first, instead of worrying as much about size.
Originally Posted By Kennesaw Tom You don't need to tell me about replacing windows. My home is only 11 years old and it cost me 26K to replace my builder grade windows with heavy duty, external alumium clad, double paned, low E glass, top of the line windows. See there are many of us who aren't in the practice of throwing money to the wind. Gone with the Wind is a great movie. Just not a good philosphy to live by financially when it comes to your utility needs.
Originally Posted By Beaumandy A good job in America today that will pay you a lot of money without having to go to college would be high quality window sales guy. I bet they make big bucks.
Originally Posted By Kennesaw Tom It was the cost of the windows and not labor that was the most expensive part of the deal. My point is that you can toss money to the wind or do what you have to do to keep the money in your pocket. Also our countries national intrests are best served when we are LESS dependent on foreign energy sounces.
Originally Posted By vbdad55 <It was the cost of the windows and not labor that was the most expensive part of the deal. < the way it is here too, many companies installing for 'free' .....now we all know nothing is free, but they are just trying to keep their workforces busy. This is a busy time here before winter.
Originally Posted By fkurucz >>It is the natural gas bill that just kills me -- and in Chicago for 5 months a year you need heat. My 'budget' plan is just under $300 / mo - every month...or else the winter bills like January are $600 and up.<< Wow. I know it gets colder up that way than here in Colorado. It used to cost even less, but they opened a new pipeline to CA a few years ago and our cost per therm doubled. Prior to that we had some of the lowest natural gas prices in the country. >>But before we rage on the McMansions...it's the energy inneficient 700 sq ft 50 year old and older homes that are paying as much as I am - as the heat seeps out the windows and doors that I'd be trying to fix first, instead of worrying as much about size.<< Same situation out here. We know people who live in 40 year 1200 sq footers that spend more than we do to heat their houses in the winter. In the summer I turn off the pilots on the gas fireplaces (new construction cannot have wood burners :-( in Colorado), and our gas bill goes down to about $30 (the water heater and the cooktop in the kitchen).
Originally Posted By fkurucz >>You don't need to tell me about replacing windows. My home is only 11 years old and it cost me 26K to replace my builder grade windows with heavy duty, external alumium clad, double paned, low E glass, top of the line windows.<< Viking sells some pretty reasonable vynil framed windows (with a lifetime warranty). We put those on the previous house before we sold it (the old aluminum frame windows were in bad shape). It think we only spent about 4K on the windows. We bought them from United Building Centers. A lot of builders in Colorado use Viking. We though about using Andersen, but that would have been 3X, and a builder friend told us to stick with Viking.
Originally Posted By fkurucz Hey Ken, I take my SUV to DL from >>Oregon. Talk about spending some money!!<< Ugh, I'd rather fly >>Now I am going to get a Chevy Tahoe and take that baby with the family to DL next month. I like the fact that if I want to drive this SUV I can. We also have a regular car that gets good gas milage. It just isn't as fun to drive.<< Interesting. We've done the Mega SUV thing in the past, and we found them to be underwhelming (in the fun to drive department). Ponderous handling because of their primitive suspension systems and high centers of gravity. Not exactly something I would go canyon carving in. They are nice for road trips with all the room, but as I said above, I'ld rather fly if it will be more than a few hours drive.
Originally Posted By fkurucz >>Ponderous handling because of their primitive suspension systems and high centers of gravity.<< What is especially ironic about this is that when we get really bad winter weather out here, its usually the SUV's that end up upside down in the freeway median zones, especially the big SUV's. They skid on ice as easily as anything else out there, and because of the high center of gravity are more likely to flip over than a car.
Originally Posted By fkurucz >>Wow! That is amazing... and a big house! << Natural gas and electricity are relatively cheap out here for some reason. If we were paying SDG&E rates it would be much, much more.
