Originally Posted By Mr X Er..okay strike that "Interesting that you say US" comment, since SuperDry used it first so I suppose you were just replying in kind. My bad. However... ***And DAR, what do you think about US citizens that have been declared "enemy combatants?"*** ***US citizens should be afforded their rights.*** So you advocate for the rights of U.S. citizens no matter WHAT they do (McVeigh springs to mind), but you're okay with lumping all potentially suspect Arabs into one big group and torturing them. Am I getting this right?
Originally Posted By DAR <<Interesting that you say US, (as in "us"), rather than U.S., but I guess that's not so surprising.>> Superdry wrote the same thing.
Originally Posted By DAR <<So you advocate for the rights of U.S. citizens no matter WHAT they do (McVeigh springs to mind), but you're okay with lumping all potentially suspect Arabs into one big group and torturing them.>> No I'm okay with known, keyword known, terrorists. I don't want us torturing innocent people I never once stated that.
Originally Posted By Mr X "Oh I would prefer that we kill as many of them as possible." DAR "I just feel it's necessary to send a message to evildoers in the world." DAR I can continue my research, if you wish.
Originally Posted By Mr X And the ones who were caught alongside them, according to you DAR. Right? (you said something about "as long as the majority of them have done the crime" etc...did you not?)
Originally Posted By DAR There's a pretty strong chance that if you're caught with a terorist you likely to be one yourself.
Originally Posted By Dabob2 That's illogical. How many times have we heard right-wingers complain about how terrorists insinuate themselves into the local population, or hide in local homes, which in fact they do. Also, we know for a fact now that some of the people we had in Guantanamo were simply turned in for bounty money by rival tribesmen. Tribesman A tells the US soldiers in a fairly chaotic situation that "Tribesman B is in with the Taliban/Al Qaeda. He talks about killing Americans." It's not true, but from Tribesman A's viewpoint it 1). brings him cash money from the bounty, and 2). gets a rival tribesman shipped out of the area. This happened with a number of people. "Pretty strong case" my butt. More like "guilt by physical proximity and/or heresay."
Originally Posted By Dabob2 Which is not to say that we didn't capture actual terrorists. Of course we did. But we have to determine who's the real deal and who's not, rather than say "well, they're PROBABLY terrorists..."
Originally Posted By Mr X ***That's illogical. How many times have we heard right-wingers complain about how terrorists insinuate themselves into the local population, or hide in local homes, which in fact they do. Also, we know for a fact now that some of the people we had in Guantanamo were simply turned in for bounty money by rival tribesmen. Tribesman A tells the US soldiers in a fairly chaotic situation that "Tribesman B is in with the Taliban/Al Qaeda. He talks about killing Americans." It's not true, but from Tribesman A's viewpoint it 1). brings him cash money from the bounty, and 2). gets a rival tribesman shipped out of the area. This happened with a number of people. "Pretty strong case" my butt. More like "guilt by physical proximity and/or heresay."*** I wonder if DAR even reads posts like this. He has NEVER addressed any such posts, and just keeps going along making the same false claims instead. So, which is it DAR, are you reading? Are you just skipping over any posts that begin to claim something you don't agree with? Or are you reading and then just purposefully ignoring all of it for the sake of your argument.
Originally Posted By SuperDry <<< By the way, DAR, I wonder if you realize the fact that a bunch of LPers are very fond of you. It's not like you're making enemies here or anything. >>> It's truer than you might think. Looking back on my life 10 years ago, I'd say that the single LPer that I most identify with as being what I was like was none other than... DAR. I don't mean that either as a compliment or an insult, but just an observation. Mostly, it means just that I think I can really relate to where DAR is coming from most of the time, even if I don't always agree with him. <<< If I were you, I'd pay closer attention to what SuperDry has to say rather than reject his comments out of hand (if you don't listen to the radio, I have to say that it's pretty odd that you manage to come up with, word for word, a great deal of propaganda slogans that are solidly out of the mouths of the right wing radio guys). >>> I think that "slogans" is a great word for what you describe. If I falsely attributed DAR's postings as being radio-originated, then I apologize. But as Mr X observed, there's a specific character to a certain group of right-leaning ideas (and postings) that can only be described as being slogans. What I mean is that beyond having a common understanding of the issues and a common opinion of things, there's a very specific notion on the right of using what I'd call "engineered phrases" (e.g. "slogans") to convey opinions. These engineered phrases and ways of stating things get distributed through various means, most prominently through right-wing talk radio. But it's also rampant on Fox News and various hard-core right-wing blog sites. It's one thing, because of various life experiences or just instinct and belief systems to happen to agree with what the noise machine spouts. But when one repeatedly expresses this agreement using the carefully-engineered talking points and slogans of the noise machine, it's apparent that they are coming from somewhere. For someone that self-reports that they don't listen to the AM radio noise machine, there must nonetheless be another source. It could be repeated viewing of O'Reilly "reporting" on the day's events, or perhaps repeated information-gathering from a blog site. But whatever the source, posts that echo engineered slogans are coming from somewhere.
Originally Posted By ecdc I'm genuinely curious - do you have any examples of the kinds of slogans you're referring to? I mean from right-wing radio and television, not necessarily one DAR used here. I think I get your point, but want to make sure I'm on the same page.
Originally Posted By Mr X Without commenting for SD (and I'm curious to hear his examples as well), the one I noticed recently between DAR and Dick Cheney was the "we kept America safe for 8 years" mantra.
