Originally Posted By EPCOT Explorer >>>don't worry, Britain got used to not being the top country in the world, the US will too.<<< And how was that?
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo All in all, it seems to work ok. The people seem to forget occassional, still enjoy some patriotism, but then decide what they want to be good at and go for it, succeeding often (though not always).
Originally Posted By TP2000 I've been skimming here, so forgive me if this has been mentioned, but... Has Britian ever sent an astronaut into space? Obviously not on their own, but has a Brit ever hitched a ride on a Space Shuttle or US rocket? Interesting topic here, especially since I just finished reading a book about Britain's first jetliner, the Comet, and what a disaster that was for them in the 1950's. After the Concorde ate up Billions with no payoff in the 1960's and 70's, I'm not surprised Britain doesn't have an active space program. But has there ever been a British astronaut?
Originally Posted By TP2000 Okay, Google got the better of me... Britain's first astronaut in space was in 1991, and actually it was a lady astronaut (astronette?) who hitched a ride on a Russian Soyuz rocket. Since '91 there have been four other Brits who have hitched rides on US Space Shuttles, mostly in the 2000's. Interestingly, all four of them had joint US/British citezenship.
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo There have been a few including on the space shuttle and also on MIR. As well as British Aerospace providing many of the parts for the shuttles, the ISS and all the satelite programmes. Michael Foale - 6 shuttle missions with extended stays on MIR and ISS. He is considered the first space walk by a british citizen (though he is duel national) and the longest time time in space for an American. Richard Garriott - the world's first space tourist going up on the Soyuz to the ISS for 12 days. Gregory Johnson - though he has taken Us nationality Nicholas Patrick - took US nationality to do it Timothy Peak - first ESA Astronaut, finished his training last year. If he goes up, he will be the first to do so without a private contract or taking US citizenship to do so. Project Juno - according to Wiki Project Juno was a private British space programme, which selected Helen Sharman to be the first Briton in space. As the United Kingdom has never had a human spaceflight programme, a private consortium was formed to raise money to pay the USSR for a seat on a Soyuz mission to the Mir space station. The USSR had recently flown Toyohiro Akiyama, a Japanese journalist, under a similar arrangement. A call for applicants was publicized in the UK (one ad read "Astronaut wanted. No experience necessary"[1]), leading to 13,000 applications. Juno selected four candidates to train in the USSR: Gordon Brooks (Royal Navy physician, then 33) Major Timothy Mace (Army Air Corps, 33) Clive Smith (Kingston Polytechnic lecturer, 27) Helen Sharman (food technologist, 26) Eventually Mace and Sharman were the two finalists, and Sharman was chosen for the flight with Mace as her backup. The cost of the flight was to be funded by various innovative schemes, including sponsoring by private British companies and a lottery system. Corporate sponsors included British Aerospace, Memorex, and Interflora, and television rights were sold to ITV. Ultimately the Juno consortium failed to raise the entire sum, and the USSR considered canceling the mission. It is believed that Mikhail Gorbachev directed the mission to proceed at Soviet cost. Several of the ambitious microgravity experiments that were originally planned were eliminated in favor of experiments designed by British schools that could be done with existing equipment aboard Mir. Sharman was launched aboard Soyuz TM-12 on 18 May 1991, and returned aboard Soyuz TM-11 on 26 May 1991. Both Sharman and Mace were candidates but not selected in the 1992 and 1998 European Space Agency selection rounds for its astronaut corps. Mace did not fly in space, but married the daughter of cosmonaut Vitali Zholobov. He later was the helicopter pilot for President of South Africa Nelson Mandela.[2] Piers Sellers - Another one that took US citizenship to do it. Helen Sharman - was the first Britain in space and did so with the Russians. She is the one most of celebrated and gives talks at the space centre every year. Mark Shuttleworth - He was the second self funded space tourist. However, I think what many do not consider is that the UK is the size of California, has a population of just under 70m people, and there are a lot of conflicting needs in public funding. Over and above the diplomatic, military and legal expenditure that most nations have (and the UK fares highly as a G8 country, not bad for one so small), it also has a National Health Service, subsidised art, culture and travel. Imagine if California had to have a standing army, world class navy, an air force, free medical, and embassies in over 200 countries, as well as having the guts bombed out of it in WWII and needing to rebuild as well as having buildings 1000's of years old that need preserving. Arnie talks about closing state beaches. No wonder the Uk doesn't have an established space programme, but they do ok. Plus I think having high speed rail, and the Channel Tunnel is pretty cool. I am very sad that Concorde did not work out. and it will be interesting to see what ESA manages to do since it seems like without a cold war, interest has largely been lost in the space programme. And as a result, toons have moved into tommorrowland.
Originally Posted By danyoung So I'm with most here that Mission: Space isn't nearly the cool attraction that it could have been. I rode once, and claustrophobia will prevent me from ever riding again. But those lamenting the loss of the educational element of Epcot I think miss the fact that M:S's predecessor, Horizons, my favorite attraction in all of WDW, had absolutely no lines in its later years. World of Motion had no lines. The Universe of Energy, even after the Ellen refurb, plays to half full houses at best most of the year. Epcot hasn't turned away from edutainment because of any bad corporate decisions. Epcot has turned away from edutainment because it simply doesn't appeal to the majority of today's park-storming audience. It's sad, but it's true.
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo I didn't Mr X. I saw it flying many times, and I have been aboard one when on the ground. It was one of my bucketlist items. Friends who flew on her said it was fab. In the days before 9/11 and the Concorde was grounded, you could be from London to NYC in 6 hours door to door.
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo But Listen to the Land still draws a line. As does Soarin (ok, not fully educational, but still, has some aspect to it). It's not what you do, but the way that you do it. M:S Could have had the ride, but a proper pavillion attatched to it. You can have education threaded through the entertainment. I used to love how Disney always bridged the gap. You have the culture vulture academic types and the Homer J Simpson types, and I felt places like Epcot, Dak etc did a fab job of bridging the gaps. That is what I truly miss. There were applause at the end of the We are Astronauts film. Applause, in a museum! Some balance in the parks would be nice, rather than just thrills, or toons, or screen based stuff.
Originally Posted By Mr X I saw it flying many times, and I have been aboard one when on the ground*** I saw it once on the ground (at JFK as my plane passed by), and once in the air. It flew right over my house, in fact, but nobody in the house believed me when I ran breathlessly inside to report the supersonic sighting. I *knew* it, though, and I was vindicated later that day when the news reported the Concorde had experienced an "unscheduled landing" in Boston. ***It was one of my bucketlist items*** Mine too. Bigtime. I always thought it was an unattainable wish, a thing for the rich and famous, but when I heard that you could use milage programs to get onboard I became hopeful. Then everything crashed and burned (literally). Still, an amazing aircraft and a thing of beauty and power matched only by a few others (I'm thinking along the lines of a Fine Italian sportscar like perhaps a Lambourghini, the Nozomi 500, and the Space Shuttle...only those come close outside of military circles).
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo It is and it isn't/ I don't know if you have ever been on a prop plane, but it is a bit like that. It is two seats, an isle, then two seats. with the leg room of old style businessclass.
Originally Posted By Mr X I have been, and I've seen plenty of pics from Concorde, I was just wondering about your first hand thoughts. Obviously the accommodations were not ideal, the thing was built for speed not comfort. I just think it's neat you checked one out (even on the ground), I'd have loved the chance to do even that much! Still...FLYING is the main thing. (duh) I'm kind of a speed geek. Riding on the Nozomi 500 was second best, but Concorde would've been the ultimate thrill for me (I suppose I still have time for the Space Shuttle once China starts sending them up on a daily basis).
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo >>>Obviously the accommodations were not ideal, the thing was built for speed not comfort. I just think it's neat you checked one out (even on the ground), I'd have loved the chance to do even that much!<<< You still can. The Imperial war Museum aviation branch is about 45 miles from us and they have one you can go on. Come on over and have a look.
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo Here's the website: <a href="http://duxford.iwm.org.uk/" target="_blank">http://duxford.iwm.org.uk/</a> It is a very cool museum, the Battle of Britain HQ is cool, as is the American branch, and even the WWI and WWII German planes are very interesting.
Originally Posted By EPCOT Explorer >>>But Listen to the Land still draws a line.<<< Also the most solid piece of EPCOT Center in Epcot. (Ick... feels wrong typing it like that. )
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<So I'm with most here that Mission: Space isn't nearly the cool attraction that it could have been. I rode once, and claustrophobia will prevent me from ever riding again. But those lamenting the loss of the educational element of Epcot I think miss the fact that M:S's predecessor, Horizons, my favorite attraction in all of WDW, had absolutely no lines in its later years. World of Motion had no lines. The Universe of Energy, even after the Ellen refurb, plays to half full houses at best most of the year. Epcot hasn't turned away from edutainment because of any bad corporate decisions. Epcot has turned away from edutainment because it simply doesn't appeal to the majority of today's park-storming audience. It's sad, but it's true.>> I would say partly true. Those older EPCOT attractions were also people-eaters. I recall being at EC on big holidays like Christmas and July 4th and WoM had the queue extended outside yet it would at most take 15-20 minutes. Compare that to TT, which always has waits even when the park is uncrowded. And if EC had too many similar type attractions in the 1990s, then I'd say it has gone too much in the other direction now (although having things like WoL and Imagination's second level sit empty are also at play).
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 ***It was one of my bucketlist items*** <<Mine too. Bigtime. I always thought it was an unattainable wish, a thing for the rich and famous, but when I heard that you could use milage programs to get onboard I became hopeful. Then everything crashed and burned (literally). Still, an amazing aircraft and a thing of beauty and power matched only by a few others (I'm thinking along the lines of a Fine Italian sportscar like perhaps a Lambourghini, the Nozomi 500, and the Space Shuttle...only those come close outside of military circles).>> Me three. I remember as a kid when the Concorde flew into Miami what a big deal it was. I feel awful about it. Aviation wonder ... and now we're again going backwards it seems. Been very close to A380s in Paris and Beijing (under one almost there) and there just isn't the same thrill. But it's much like the space program. We went to the moon in the freaking 1960s and in a year we'll be relying on the Russians and private companies to take us into space. How sad. How truly sad. I have to believe that if you asked people in the early 70s when we'd be on Mars they would have likely said 'mid-late 80s'. Oh well, my biggest personal aviation regret was not buying the PanAm name and logo in the 1990s when it could be bought for $1 million. If I could go back, I'd have found a way to make that happen as it is still incredibly valuable ... ABC has a pilot in the works about the airline's pilots and stewardesses (when they were still called that) in the 60s. Oh, and can I nominate my good pal Dave (UK version) as this site's most prolific poster. You might make a good writer some day the way you turn out long (usually insightful too) posts. Not that I'd know anything about writing!
