Originally Posted By NikkiLOVESMickey <<You don't want to go all loco emotional like my pal Nikki The Educator.>> That speaks volumes about your character, Spirit. Thanks - you can keep your margaritas. I have no interest in sharing them with you. I'm done. Goodbye.
Originally Posted By -em Today I got the quarterly email from "Bob" about the last fiscal quarter... It was the funniest (and saddest) thing I have read in a while... I think the only things that still have a green light are things that and I semi/kinda quote as I dont have the email here and its late... "that they think will bring the biggest opportunity for long term growth" and the only two things mentioned are the cruise line's new boats and video games... No mention whatsoever of the resorts, parks etc... sigh its going to be a long haul before we see the light at the end of the tunnel...
Originally Posted By mstaft Just when it seemed safe to come back into the water. Sorry to see you go Nikki. You had alot of good things to say. This is why I hate to see these boards get hostile. People only leave- people with a great love for the parks and a desire to see them improve. People who love to discuss what made and makes them great.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 I have been staying away from here because I wanted to cool off a bit and hoped others would do likewise. I had a long (hey, that's all I know how to write) passionate response to MPierce's post questioning my feelings about religion ... and then I realized that this really isn't the place. And I have no desire to ever read let alone post in WE. So I intend to do my best to be as non-politcal as possible (but Dave did explain my feelings when he was comparing WDW's decline with the USA's). The bottom line is it always ends with hurt feelings. I have great respect for MPierce (really!) and don't want him to be upset or think less of me. And I kinda care about Nikki (sorta) because I believe she cares deeply about things, but is also quick to jump to conclusions and fly off the handle ... hence my shot at her that was made largely in jest. And I am 100% sure she will be back. They all come back ... except unfortunately for jonvn, someone I miss. Anyway, that's it ... I am happy about the election and hope things imrpove for us all. Plain and simple. Now back to the thread ... and it's move toward DVC all I will say is what should be obvious to all -- WDW has way too many timeshares and hotels already. And while they are great revenue generators when the economy is good, what happens when it isn't? You know ... like now. 30,000 rooms can become a huge weight tied to your feet when you get pushed off the bridge in an economic downturn ... and they pretty much tie your hands as far as doing anything proactive in the parks themselves. On another site, the folks are lathered up over yet more rumors over Fantasyland's proposed $300 million makeover, one that I am convinced will NOT happen (likely wouldn't have happened even if the economy was 2005-ish). But if Disney didn't have the spectre of empty rooms by the thousands staring it in the face maybe things would be different. Maybe they'd be able to invest in their parks like Busch and Universal are doing instead of looking at ways of laying off CMs (Special Events anyone?) and cutting small things (CM holiday parties). Disney's abject greed -- started in the mid-90s under Eiser -- and pushed thru by Jay Rasulo's projections of never-ending streams of eager DVC buyers have put WDW in a precarious position. Because in 18 months time Busch and Universal will have invested over half a billion in Orlando and Disney ... Disney ... Disney will have a new Prez in HoP ... the same tired MK parade with yet another new name ... the AI Experience at the Studios and ... not much else except for a never-ending supply of timeshares that aren't selling like they once were. Of course maybe this ultimate money grab will cost Jay his job (the Four Seasons folks reportedly are very unhappy with Disney's decision to postpone/kill its boutique animal park) because the DVC gravy train could be headed off a cliff in grand coyote fashion.
Originally Posted By NikkiLOVESMickey <<And I kinda care about Nikki (sorta) because I believe she cares deeply about things, but is also quick to jump to conclusions and fly off the handle ... hence my shot at her that was made largely in jest.>> Spirit, I'm tired of both you and davewasbaloo's pretentious postings. I've never seen two people more self-assured in their knowledge of seemingly EVERYTHING than you two. You won't even consider other people's viewpoints because they aren't yours. Your arrogance is sickening. Like I said, you can keep your margaritas. I don't even have the desire to share the same air as you, much less a drink. And before you think that I'm "flying off the handle," let me assure you that my opinion of you has been brewing under the surface for quite some time. I've always given you the benefit of the doubt, until now. I'm not wasting my time, and more importantly the other LP posters' time, with this discussion anymore.
Originally Posted By magnet I can't do much about putting the Walt back into Disney, but we could all work a little harder to put the laughs back into laughing place.
Originally Posted By MPierce >> had a long (hey, that's all I know how to write) passionate response to MPierce's post questioning my feelings about religion ... and then I realized that this really isn't the place. << Spirit I never question your religious feelings, you have made it clear before on that. I only questioned the wisdom of posting something that definetly is going to be offensive to some people of faith, and offensive to others on principal. That is the only reason I said anything at all. I don't care if a person is an Atheist or a Minister or a Rabbi or a Mullah or a Priest. What I do object to is the posting in a WDW forum of something that could be inflammatory. Politics, and religion or two of the most volatile subjects around. >> The bottom line is it always ends with hurt feelings. I have great respect for MPierce (really!) and don't want him to be upset or think less of me. << I have great respect for you too my friend. Never believe that I will think less of you for what you believe. I respect all the wisdom you show consistently in your posting, and in the brillant threads you start. I will always consider you a friend. You said it best "The bottom line is it always ends in hurt feelings". Believe me Spirit that's exactly what I want to avoid here. LP in my opinions has some of the most inteligent, diverse, and savvy people on the net. One would find it very difficult to run across a better group of people in any forum. I really do think of this as a Community of friends with differing viewpoints. I became suddenly fearful that I was watching that Community disintergrate right in front of me. I found myself on the verge of making a personal attack on a fellow Poster (by the way that was not you). I just didn't like the feeling it left inside of me. I started thinking of some of the people that have left this site, and some who seldom post anymore. I started wondering what someone new to this forum might be thinking about how some of us were acting. It just finally all came to a head, and I said some things that I felt needed saying. I might be wrong in what I said, and I might be wrong in posting it. I sincerely apologize if I hurt anyone's feelings, that was not, nor will it ever be my intention. I really want to see LP grow. I want to come here every day, and find so many post I don't have time to read them all. I want all of the members especially the new ones to feel welcome here. I want them to be able to post on legitamate topics with out the fear of being shouted down. That kind of atmosphere is just not conducive to goode wholesome discussion, and debate. I know I am going to be much more cautious in the future about how I phrase things. It definetly is a problem on the net when you can't hear the person's tone or see their facial expressions. Let's all please try to respect the other person's feelings. Let's make LP a place where a lot of good people want to hang out. No one leave please everyone is welcome here. Please try to put past rifts behind you, and work towards a Community that debates, and discussesd the issues of WDW not a Community that attacks one another, PLEASE. >> Anyway, that's it ... I am happy about the election and hope things imrpove for us all. Plain and simple << I share your feelings. The American people have spoken with their votes. We will once again have a peaceful transfer of power on January 20th 2009. We should all work together as Americans to build this great Country back to where it should be. I may not agree with every policy in the future of soon to be President Obama, but he has my full respect, and support.
Originally Posted By MPierce >> can't do much about putting the Walt back into Disney, but we could all work a little harder to put the laughs back into laughing place. << True words of wisdom magnet, I agree completely.
Originally Posted By MPierce >> Now back to the thread ... and it's move toward DVC all I will say is what should be obvious to all -- WDW has way too many timeshares and hotels already << Greed does funny things to executives in high places. Slow consistent growth while maintaining the quality of your product seems to be a trait that has eroded at WDW slowly over time. >> 30,000 rooms can become a huge weight tied to your feet when you get pushed off the bridge in an economic downturn ... and they pretty much tie your hands as far as doing anything proactive in the parks themselves. << I wonder how long it will be before they star closing down resorts for refurbishing, like they did the real Port Orleans after 9/11? Note to Disney Executives: If you plan on keeping Walt's dream of quality family entertainment alive, long term goals, and planning come in mighty handy.
Originally Posted By MPierce >> On another site, the folks are lathered up over yet more rumors over Fantasyland's proposed $300 million makeover, one that I am convinced will NOT happen (likely wouldn't have happened even if the economy was 2005-ish). << Disney fans just have a faith that new things are coming soon. They have to believe that. They don't see the handwritting on the wall. Disney already announced the multi-billion dollar spending frenzy on DCA. I wonder if they are going to try to sweep that under the rug or be bold, and tell people it's on hold until we come back to the park in droves. The Disney Corp. has decided to be reactionary, rather than being the bold decisive leaders in the entertainment field that they once were. They seem to be content with sitting on the side lines. I sure hope I am reading them wrong.
Originally Posted By MPierce >> Disney's abject greed -- started in the mid-90s under Eiser -- and pushed thru by Jay Rasulo's projections of never-ending streams of eager DVC buyers have put WDW in a precarious position. << Made even more pronounced when the time comes for Disney to prove to their loyal DVC owners that their investment was worth it. Providing less entertainment, no maintainence of attractions, reduced services, lowering of all traditional Disney standards, and shorter Park hours sends an all to clear message. definetly not the way to do that.
Originally Posted By MPierce >> Because in 18 months time Busch and Universal will have invested over half a billion in Orlando and Disney ... Disney ... Disney will have a new Prez in HoP ... the same tired MK parade with yet another new name ... the AI Experience at the Studios and ... not much else except for a never-ending supply of timeshares that aren't selling like they once were. << Lets hope these other corporation continue their bold moves while creating an even larger fan base. It's really kind of sad when others in the entertainment industry take the lead while Disney sits on their hands. I really never thought I would see that happen.
Originally Posted By Kennesaw Tom I spoke with some Disney cast members selling DVC while in Downtown Disney. SS was all sold out this past June. The only DVC being sold at this time are for AKL only. The treehouse DVCs under construction are not even on the market yet and there is no word on how much they will be going for.
Originally Posted By MPierce >> Of course maybe this ultimate money grab will cost Jay his job (the Four Seasons folks reportedly are very unhappy with Disney's decision to postpone/kill its boutique animal park) because the DVC gravy train could be headed off a cliff in grand coyote fashion. << I would much prefer some executives to come out of their sleep walk, and fall in love with WDW like so many of their CM.s, and fans on these forums are. Sadly that's not how corporate America acts nowdays. It's hard for me to have any sympathy for how the Four Seasons feels about anything. All will be forgiven if they don't destroy the beautiful sight line from the Wilderness Lodge (and yes that is a totally selfish thought. I never never was a fan of this new high end Park that Disney was planning. I just thought it was an all around bad idea. I just don't think they could have executed it properly. If you want to attract the wealth you don't build something with a cut budget, and fly by night plans. The wealth expect special entertainment to be lavish, and luxurious, not half baked. I just don't know if Disney is truly capable of doing that at this time. Yes, and when the coyote finally hits the bottom of the canyon, the huge bolder soon follows.
Originally Posted By MPierce >> Today I got the quarterly email from "Bob" about the last fiscal quarter... It was the funniest (and saddest) thing I have read in a while... I think the only things that still have a green light are things that and I semi/kinda quote as I dont have the email here and its late... "that they think will bring the biggest opportunity for long term growth" and the only two things mentioned are the cruise line's new boats and video games... No mention whatsoever of the resorts, parks etc... sigh its going to be a long haul before we see the light at the end of the tunnel... << Yes that is disturbing. What's even more disturbing is the funk you've been in of late. I know what an excellent, and truly dedicated CM you are. Disney needs to sit up, and take notice when their quality CM's feel so low. I really do hope things improve, and turn around for you -em.
Originally Posted By MPierce >> The treehouse DVCs under construction are not even on the market yet and there is no word on how much they will be going for. << You can bet the price will be up at the top of the resorts. I wonder if they will sit there unfinished along with Bay Lake Towers. we could start a derelict Resort fan club. After all we already have the Golden Years of Pop Century.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 >> 30,000 rooms can become a huge weight tied to your feet when you get pushed off the bridge in an economic downturn ... and they pretty much tie your hands as far as doing anything proactive in the parks themselves. << <<I wonder how long it will be before they star closing down resorts for refurbishing, like they did the real Port Orleans after 9/11?>> This might sound shocking to some around here, but my feelings are really like this ... if Disney truly is headed for 2001-03 ear occupancy issues at its resorts at the same times its parks are desperate for freshening and new reasons for people to visit, I'd do something drastic. I'd shutter a few resorts come Jan. 15th. Shut em down. Save on all that overhead. Much of the labor comes from places like Haiti and the Dominican Republic to staff housekeeping and Food and Beverage ... this is going to sound cruel, but send 'em home. Other CMs get transferred whereever they're needed and hiring is put on complete hold. That's not enough? Close every park, except MK one day a week. And don't reopen Typhoon Lagoon (which is being considered already) in March. Keep it down until at least May or June. You've just saved untold millions of dollars (I don't have a few MBAs handy with PowerPoints, so I can't be more specific), so instead of borrowing to put money into the parks and instead of simply delaying these things for even more years, you take the savings and imediately start work on everything that's been tossed around WDI: 1.) new Fantasyland with all the bells and whistles; 2.) Very large E-Ticket for DAK; 3.) Imagination version 4.0 and new Illuminations at Epcot; 4.) Montsters coaster and Star Tours 2.0 at Studios; 5.) put money back into Space Mountain's rehab and push it back into an 18-month project; And guess what? Whenever the economy improves the people will be back in droves. Hell, you might even get people to come in between when they see that Disney clearly cares about its Orlando product. <<Note to Disney Executives: If you plan on keeping Walt's dream of quality family entertainment alive, long term goals, and planning come in mighty handy.>> This was discussed at length on that other site, MPierce, but Disney needs to have 5 and 10 year master plans. They should already have the 40th Anniversary planned out and budgeted. Forget about the WHAT WILL YOU CELEBRATE? marketing campaign. They should know what the message will be to folks in 2012. No, this doesn't have to be etched in stone, but it should at least be written in crayon (OK, Sharpie). The reason WDW is so stale overall is because they go year to year and make no attempt to look at what the WDW of 2010 or 2014 or 2020 will look like. They might as well all be blind because there's no long term creative vision for the Orlando resort. The only thing you can be sure is that they've got the plans for Disney's Grand Floridian Beach Resort AND VILLAS all planned out, including when they hope to announce it to the public. As to what World Showcase should look like in 2012? Ah ... not so much. As to renovating rotting structures in the MK (don't anyone lean on the railings/fences on the Adventureland Veranada porch near the bridge unless you are either looking to get hurt/killed or are looking to sue the Mouse)? Why would you do that? Will it bring any money in? ETC ... ETC ... ETC ...
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<Disney fans just have a faith that new things are coming soon. They have to believe that.>> Please don't take this the wrong way but I compare many die-hard Disney fans to the very political or the very religious. They believe just to believe. They don't know any other way. I used to be like that. I used to expect that Disney would always be adding and plussing and innovating because that's what they did. Year in and year out. Decade after magical decade. But somewhere along the way (I always point to 1996 at WDW for some reason ... maybe the nothing and never-ending Remember the Magic Celebration with pepto castle and no substance at all) they stopped doing that. And since then they have largely disappointed me ... certainly more often than they've impressed me. And they hardly ever wow me. Sure, I've changed and grown. But I haven't changed that much ... and not at my core. They have. So I don't expect great things anymore. I expect to be mildly entertained if anything better well, then I get a very pleasant surprise. And just one comment I posted on that other site ... but when one looks at the great Disney attractions, the most popular, most are over 40 years old ... things like Mansion, PoC, Peter Pan, Small World ... why? because they're long, immersive attractions with real sets, AAs, things to see, classic music etc ... you can always see new things. Now, look at WDW in the last 15 years. How many attractions that have opened do you see being around in 40 years? I see exactly two (and I won't list them because I'm curious as to which two you'd think I'd pick) and neither is MILF or SGE. And, FWIW, if the planet still exists and Disney still exists I firmly believe that 40 years from now people will still be riding Mansion, Pirates, Pan and Small World because they are all timeless ... Now again, go back to 1993 and tell me what attractions that have debuted at WDW since that period have a chance at that kind of staying power? I think this proves my point about staleness and poor creative and financial decisions better than anything else. So please ... anybody got some thoughts? <<They don't see the handwritting on the wall. Disney already announced the multi-billion dollar spending frenzy on DCA. I wonder if they are going to try to sweep that under the rug or be bold, and tell people it's on hold until we come back to the park in droves.>> I think DCA will see everything announced already for it, barring a total world economic collapse. That money and financing has already been freed up. And from a PR standpoint, has to go through. No one but some insiders and some geeks (one and the same I guess) know about the $300 million to renovate Fantasyland and make it look better than the worst version in the world ... so if it doesn't happen they don't have to answer to anyone. <<The Disney Corp. has decided to be reactionary, rather than being the bold decisive leaders in the entertainment field that they once were. They seem to be content with sitting on the side lines. I sure hope I am reading them wrong.>> You aren't. And this can all be traced back to Frank Wells untimely demise, Michael Eisner's health problems and the rise of consultants and marketing folks at Disney. Now it's all about topping pigs with pigs ... it's all about copying what the competition is doing instead of setting the standard. It's all about building timeshares (a business that Disney wasn't even in until 1991) instead of maintaning world class theme park destinations. But I could be wrong ...
Originally Posted By dshyates All you pissers and moaners crack me up. I am not a DVC participant I make 20K/year, But I am thrilled that they have many new DVC options coming on line. I have planned my next trip just so I can "LOOK" at the Bay Lake Tower. Then I will look at AKL DVC then head to the parks for some shopping. I'm looking for some Mickey themed callous scruffers and some "What will You Celebrate" Tampax for my 12 year old daughter.
Originally Posted By -em >>I'm looking for some Mickey themed callous scruffers and some "What will You Celebrate" Tampax for my 12 year old daughter.<< Dont give them any ideas...
