Originally Posted By wahooskipper Well, I'm not sure to what extent the White House controls what questions reporters are going to ask. I don't fault the President for answering the question...just doing so wrecklessly.
Originally Posted By WilliamK99 Anytime a president gets involved in a situation without knowing all of the facts disaster occurs... Didn't President Obama learn anything from Pres. Bush declaring war on Iraq?
Originally Posted By skinnerbox Here's an interesting point to the story that merits examination. Gates' neighbors phoned the police about someone breaking into Gates' home, so the police drove out to the house to investigate. By the time they arrived, Gates' driver had left and he was already inside his house. When the police knocked/rang the bell, Gates answered the door. That's the key. How many bad guys actually answer the door in a house they do not have permission to be in? Crooks are not going to answer the door if they cannot provide I.D. or evidence that they're not trespassing. And the police should instinctively know that. Gates opened his door with the uniformed officer standing right in front of him, and made no attempt to flee. The vast majority of criminals would have made a mad dash out the back door in an attempt to get away, knowing that the jig was up and an arrest would soon follow. Because Gates made no attempt to flee, the officer should have immediately recognized that Gates was in his own home and let it go. I'm confident that if Gates was white, this is what the officer would have done.
Originally Posted By wahooskipper I'm not confident in that at all. When the FBI came to my house they were looking for a guy in his 60s. I was in my late 20s at the time. They still questioned me for an hour and I'm a white guy.
Originally Posted By ecdc >>Gates opened his door with the uniformed officer standing right in front of him, and made no attempt to flee.<< Are you serious? He was already in his house when this happened? If that's true, then almost no behavior, no matter how unpleasant on Gates' part, would justify his arrest. Wow.
Originally Posted By Kennesaw Tom skinnerbox that question has already been asked of the Police and their responce was that they would not have behaved differently. One point that you are missing is that Gates had just returned from China, his luggage had to have been right there. How could anyone have missed the luggage with name tags on it, which I"m sure the Police didn't miss. Furthermore, if Gates had just returned from China then I"m sure his passport was right there. I'm not sure how cooperative Gates was to the questioning but the fact are kind of obvious that even a caveman could get it! OK, so Gates was uncooperative.... but Gates story is adding up..... no crime has been committed. The Police Officer should have just left and let Gates sleep it off. Yes people say the dardest things when they are exhausted and just completed a 19 hour flight.
Originally Posted By skinnerbox <<One point that you are missing is that Gates had just returned from China, his luggage had to have been right there. How could anyone have missed the luggage with name tags on it, which I"m sure the Police didn't miss. Furthermore, if Gates had just returned from China then I"m sure his passport was right there. I'm not sure how cooperative Gates was to the questioning but the fact are kind of obvious that even a caveman could get it!>> I hadn't thought of that. Absolutely correct, KT. What the heck was that officer thinking, how could he have not noticed these things? Nor question why a crook would be answering the door to a house he didn't live in?
Originally Posted By Dabob2 <Anytime a president gets involved in a situation without knowing all of the facts disaster occurs... Didn't President Obama learn anything from Pres. Bush declaring war on Iraq?> Oh yeah, this is comparable.
Originally Posted By Dabob2 <Honestly from reading the reports, the officer was in the right....> That's if you believe his reports. As I said before, I doubt either Gates or the cop behaved as decorously as their respective statements would have it. And Gates really answered the freaking door? One would think that would be the cop's first clue. My guess (and yes, it's just a guess): the cop duly checked out the situation after being called to the scene of a possible break-in. He rings the doorbell and Gates answers, which pretty much should have ended it right there. Gates gets upset that he's being asked, essentially, if he has the right to be in his own home. His long flight from China makes him punchy to begin with. He gets upset and says some aggressive things. The cop is upset at being spoken to in that manner, and gets more aggressive himself. The testosterone starts flowing. Neither man wants to back down, and the words escalate. The cop gets fed up and arrests the guy giving him grief, which he shouldn't have done. I wasn't there. But reading both statements and knowing how certain men just don't like to back down when challenged (and I'm guessing both guys fit that description), it seems logical.
Originally Posted By Kennesaw Tom Because the front door had been forced in and could not be secured. For all pratical purposes it truely looked to the Police as if someone had broken in. Of course its not a crime to break into your own home. If you read the Police report which I already posted in this thread ( a few LPers didn't like the website of the Official Police Report ). You will see that a Havard matience person was contacted, arrived and was a witness to Gate's "racial" protests. The Havard was left with the keys to the home and fixed the door. So I could see the Police initially being concerned but as Gates description of the course of events unfold the Police Officer should have just left. Instead it got into a pissing contest and now Gates is liable.
Originally Posted By Kennesaw Tom But then we get into what has happened since that time. Ok mistakes were made. Gate's Atty "talks" with the Police. The Police agree to drop the charges. The arresting Officer shuts up and doesn't speak. Gates goes to his summer home on Martha's Vinyard and starts making phone calls. Next thing you know the President is calling the Cambridge Police "stupid" on national TV and Al Sharpton is already gathering a mob and making it apparent they are out for the Police Officers blood. LOL.... this would be too funny if it wasn't true. You can't dream this stuff up.
Originally Posted By gadzuux You guys are missing an important point - Gates was arrested for being disorderly in public, but the only reason he was in public (and, for that matter, the only reason he was disorder) was because of the actions of the cop. It was the cop who insisted that they move from inside the house to out on the sidewalk. This presumeably is because Gates was irate and yelling. Gates didn't want to go outside, but did - in compliance with the cop's demands. All of this was completely avoidable. Once Gates has positively identified himself and proven that he was in his own home, it became clear that no crime had been committed and should have ended there. Instead, the cop allowed the situation to grow into a public scene. So yes - as Obama acknowleged, he didn't have all the facts. But yes, the facts available seem to clearly indicate that the cop acted stupidly. You have to wonder why?
Originally Posted By Dabob2 <Next thing you know the President is calling the Cambridge Police "stupid" on national TV> Actually he said they acted stupidly, and I would say he was right, if perhaps impolitic. <and Al Sharpton is already gathering a mob and making it apparent they are out for the Police Officers blood.> I have no love for Sharpton, but ironically, that statement is itself an example of the sort of hyperbole that escalates situations.
Originally Posted By DouglasDubh <It was the cop who insisted that they move from inside the house to out on the sidewalk.> According to the officer, he informed Mr Gates he was going outside, and if Mr Gates wanted to discuss the matter further, he could follow him. This seems pretty smart to me - at that point, Mr Gates could have let it go, but if he didn't, there'd be witnesses.
Originally Posted By Dabob2 That's if you believe the officer. I take everything both he and Gates say with a grain of salt or two. I'm thinking this boils down to a glorified pissing match. Certainly not something anyone should have been arrested for.
Originally Posted By WilliamK99 I'm thinking this boils down to a glorified pissing match. Certainly not something anyone should have been arrested for.<< and certainly not something in which the Commander in Chief should single out the police department for acting "stupidly".... Fault appears to be on both sides....
Originally Posted By Dabob2 He was asked about it. He gave his honest opinion, and I think he was right. It was a stupid action. It really was. And he prefaced it all by saying that Gates was a friend of his, and so he might be biased to start with, and he STILL can't catch a break from some people. They've seized on this word and they're holding on to it like a pit bull with a chew toy. I can't believe how much discussion has been caused by one word, and how much import some are choosing to give it.
Originally Posted By WilliamK99 Ome thing I find very interesting is with one comment, President Obama ruined his entire Press Conference about Health Care reform... Today all you can hear about is his comments concerning the cops, instead of a serious debate about health care reform....
Originally Posted By Dabob2 That is indeed a shame, although if you look at more serious sites, they are discussing health care.
