Originally Posted By andyll <,Again if the Principal felt that she was not representing the school in a manner that was fit, he had every right to discipline her. >> Where in the tweet did she mention the school? Was her tweet ( on its own ) disruptive to the class? If it was an email would it be ok? If she posted it on facebook that evening from home is that ok? I'm just trying to figure out what you feel is the line where a school has the right to censor what a student says to their friends.
Originally Posted By Dabob2 Yeah. So what? That's where she saw him speak. So basically, she tweeted to her friends: "I just saw the Governor speak. I think he sucks." It was PRIVATE communication between her and her friends. It only became public knowledge because the Governor feels compelled to have a taxpayer-funded staffer trolling social media for (gasp!) tweets critical of the governor. I think this girl is not exactly the ideal poster child for freedom of expression. She sounds like a pretty typically snarky 18 year old to me. OTOH, if her response in #22 was oral rather than written, it sounds like she can be pretty articulate when she wants to be. Which doesn't surprise me much - I remember being 18, and I could speak with a certain intelligence and decorum when necessary and still say to my friends in private moments that such-and-such sucked. <new york loves trump> Just to stand up for my adopted home a bit, I'll say that most New Yorkers who don't live in penthouses got tired of that clown a looooooooooong time ago.
Originally Posted By ecdc >>It was PRIVATE communication between her and her friends.<< Love the rest of your post, Dabob2, and agree, but I disagree with this. There's nothing private about Twitter - unless you direct message someone, then every single solitary person on Twitter can see it. I don't say this because I think she deserved to be punished or should've had to apologize. I just have a real interest in social media and its implications for our culture vis a vis privacy, free speech, etc. It all just fascinates me where it's all headed. I tend to side with this girl, but no one can post something on Twitter and claim "Oh it was private." What's my point? Uh...do I have one? Even I'm not sure.
Originally Posted By Dabob2 <Love the rest of your post, Dabob2, and agree, but I disagree with this. There's nothing private about Twitter - unless you direct message someone, then every single solitary person on Twitter can see it.> Really? I'm not on Twitter, but I thought you had to "follow" someone to see their tweets; therefore she only intended the message for her 60some friends who followed her. If this is incorrect, I stand corrected.
Originally Posted By DDMAN26 <<Yeah. So what? That's where she saw him speak. >> She was there a representative of her school.
Originally Posted By ecdc >>Really? I'm not on Twitter, but I thought you had to "follow" someone to see their tweets<< Nope, you could join Twitter right now, hunt me down, and see every single tweet I've sent for the last two years, whether you follow me or not. And you can search for anything--so if I type in Brownback, well, there it is. Twitter is truly meant as a public forum. Now, I've got like 20 followers, all friends, and the odds of anyone beyond them ever seeing a tweet of mine is really low, given how many million are sent a day. But it's possible, and if someone searched for something I'd talked about, it'd come up.
Originally Posted By skinnerbox <<Again if the Principal felt that she was not representing the school in a manner that was fit, he had every right to discipline her.>> WRONG! The principal does not have the right to 'discipline' a student for an opinion that was communicated privately via the student's personal property and personal -- not academic -- social media. The school did not furnish the smartphone, nor the Twitter account that she utilized. The principal and school district has no constitutional right to control her private expression of her personal opinions of what she experienced during a school-sponsored field trip. Period. <<If a faculity member did the same thing, the Principal would have the same right.>> Wrong again! Even faculty members have the constitutional right to tweet to their friends and families of what they experienced during school functions via their personal property and personal social media. If the school administration does not like the opinions being expressed via this media, tough cookies. Tweeting friends and family is akin to writing old-fashioned letters. That's personal and private communication, which is protected speech under the Constitution.
Originally Posted By DDMAN26 I will admit I was against the idea of Twitter but it is actually pretty cool. I just follow people, like the Green Bay Packers, some entertainment writers, some of my favorite comic book writers and such. A few Disney sites and people that's about it. But I've read many an article I wouldn't have otherwise found through someone's Tweets.
Originally Posted By ecdc I say funny stuff on Twitter or Facebook (at least I hope it's funny) about politicians or public figures all the time, knowing they'll never see it and it'll (again, hopefully) give my friends a laugh. I think that's all this girl was trying to do - so it seems silly to expect her to have some high level of criticism or discourse for the Governor. If I knew I was meeting someone or writing something that would be seen by someone whose policies I'd critique, I'd be far more thoughtful in the hopes of making an actual impact.
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo Funny thing, when I was 17 ,I represented my county at youth parliament, sponsored by my school. At a session that included a number of high level MPs including 2 men than would become Prime Minister, I engaged in debate. One of the right wing politicians who was also an author (and later served time in prison) would not concede the need for a Youth Minister or the Disability Discrimination Act. My frustrations got the best of me when I asked whether his level of contempt would reduce if they are issues of fox hunting or Oxbridge as the honourable member had more experience in such endeavours, his temper got the best of him and he left the chamber. Had Twitter or Facebook been around, I would have probably said he sucked. What was interesting is it made the national press, and as an immigrant, some people applauded me ,many told me if I did not like it I should "go home". But instead of needing to apologize, I had a commendation that helped me secure a scolarship to study international politics.
Originally Posted By DDMAN26 In fact any employer could have the right to discipline someone if they find a tweet to be offensive or out of line. Take the NFL for example there's been instances of players being disciplined for tweets that they sent out.
Originally Posted By skinnerbox <<Twitter is truly meant as a public forum. Now, I've got like 20 followers, all friends, and the odds of anyone beyond them ever seeing a tweet of mine is really low, given how many million are sent a day. But it's possible, and if someone searched for something I'd talked about, it'd come up.>> But she didn't communicate her opinions on campus to the student body at large, nor as part of an academic assignment given to her by faculty. Those are the only forms of communication the principal has any right to control per the Hazelwood decision of SCOTUS. Yes, Twitter is somewhat 'public' but so is standing on a soap box at the corner of State & Main and telling the world what you think of your Governor. That is protected free speech. However, as a student of a particular school, you do not have the right to stand on that soap box in the quad at lunch time (or even after school) and tell the world what you think about your Governor, if the principal believes you're a disruptive influence to the student body at large. On campus, you do not have free speech rights. But off campus, on your personal smartphone, utilizing your personal Twitter account, you have free speech rights as guaranteed by the Constitution. Twitter is the modern day soap box. And as long as that soap box is not school property nor standing on school property, a student can use it to tell the world what they think about the Governor, just like any other citizen.
Originally Posted By skinnerbox <<Not if they are representing the school.>> Sorry, but that does apply here. She did not express her opinions during the event where she was allegedly 'representing her school.' These opinions were expressed away from the event, not publicly during the event. The principal does not have any rights to censor her tweets. <<Take the NFL for example there's been instances of players being disciplined for tweets that they sent out.>> Question: did the tweets violate their contract agreements? Was there specific language spelled out in their contracts regarding 'public discourse' and any negative expression during that public discourse regarding the NFL, their team, fellow players/managers/administration/etc? If so (I suspect there was), then the NFL had every legal right to discipline the players. But that is an entirely separate issue from what the student did regarding her opinion of her Governor.
Originally Posted By Dabob2 <<Yeah. So what? That's where she saw him speak. >> <She was there a representative of her school.> Sorry, no. Skinnerbox has this right, both in #55 (the Hazelwood decision), and in the first paragraph of 56. And thanks for the info, ecdc. I learned something today.
Originally Posted By andyll <<Not if they are representing the school.>> She wasn't. <<Take the NFL for example there's been instances of players being disciplined for tweets that they sent out.>> They can't tweet during a game. And they sign a contract allowing the NFL to police things like that. If students are not allowed to tweet during field trips then that is what she should be punished for... not the content of the tweet.
Originally Posted By melekalikimaka Except the courts have continually sided with schools when it comes to students using their "free speech". Usually these students are on campus at the time...but a court might still consider a school sponsored event as "on campus", especially when the student may be representing the school. You simply cannot say how the courts would decide if this went to court because they have sided with schools nearly always. It doesn't matter if that girl is an "adult" or using her personal property. The courts usually side with the schools. Then there's the whole "freedom of speech" aspect...yes, the government cannot prohibit her ability to speak her mind. That's all. It's murky when they chastize her...but not illegal. Freedom of speech works both ways. She made her comments and people are more than welcome to read them back. She made a public statement; if she hadn't, no one would have really seen it. Freedom of speech comes with consequences...especiall when you're an adult. As to twitter being private...well, you can choose to make your tweets private and choose who can follow you/see them. Once you add a hashtag and start trending...not sure. And once you add another twitter handle, I believe their followers (or, if their tweets are public) can see them. Plus, people can re-tweet your comments...not sure if those can be seen by everyone if that person's tweets are public. Lots of variables...in essence, you should never assume your tweets are private. (And, obviously, hers were not.) Do I think what the girl did was wrong? No. Do I think she's abnormal or wrong for the way she talks? No...it was an incredibly tame post but still immature. Was it lame to brag about making a comment she didn't really make? Yeah, too bad it wasn't really even a funny bluff. Should the governor's office have contacted the school? Oh hell no, even if they thought she HAD said it to his face. Should the principal have spoken to her? If he believed she actually insulted the governor during a school function? Yes, absolutely. Do we know if he threatened her with any discipline or just suggested/requested she apologize? Threatening her would be out of line but I don't think suggesting she apologize is out of bounds. Forcing her would be. I don't even think it's that big of a deal that someone on the governor's staff would be checking social media for any comments. I'm sure all politicians have people who do this...just as many businesses do. (In fact, one of my friends interviewed for that sort of job!) What they did after reading her tweet...pathetically petty!
Originally Posted By andyll <<Love the rest of your post, Dabob2, and agree, but I disagree with this. There's nothing private about Twitter - >> Yes but kinda no. Tweets are publicly available but for run of the mill people there is an expectation that it is the followers that read it. A weak analogy would be if I am sitting with a group of friends in a resturant. Anything I say is directed toward them and my expectation is only that they hear it but in reality anyone within hearing distance knows what I say.
