Originally Posted By RoadTrip Is it bad? Yes. Is it nearly as bad as the media makes it out to be? No. Unfortunately the scare they put in to people is making it worse than it would be otherwise. You have many people out there who are in no danger and are better off financially than they ever were. But they are not spending their money either because they have been convinced the sky is going to fall. You cut off consumer spending and we ARE ALL SCREWED. That is what irritates me so much about the media and the gloom and doomers. They are taking a situation that is admittedly bad and making it far worse than it would be otherwise. vbdad... I KNOW the 1.1 million people you are talking about are going to be drastically cutting their spending. What is totally unnecessary is people who are in good shape cutting their spending also and that is happening because of the gloom and doom. People have stopped buying cars PERIOD. Not just those people who've been laid off. EVERYONE. THAT is what makes me wonder what the hell the gloom and doomers are trying to do to us.
Originally Posted By RoadTrip vbdad... (and others). I wouldn't have to give a damn. My income next year is going to be exactly the same whether the economy goes in the crapper or not. If anything, recession would help me. It will keep prices down and make part time seasonal work at low wages more available than ever. And that is exactly the kind of work I want to get me out of the house for 10-15 hours per week. But I keep making my posts (and getting blasted for them) because I know there are many people out there who WILL suffer from the economy, and I can't stand the thought that they will be hurt more than they would have to be. And they are not being hurt by me. They are being hurt by you.
Originally Posted By kennect Trip, I will buy half of your story....A very good wise friend of mine made the comment back in Oct. when all of this just hit...As she said, "Not everyone is poor at this time"...Which is true but then there is a large group that is having a hard time...I do buy into that a portion of this overall reaction has been based on panic...But in all honesty how should the media be reporting right now in your opinion?
Originally Posted By vbdad55 <People have stopped buying cars PERIOD. Not just those people who've been laid off. EVERYONE. THAT is what makes me wonder what the hell the gloom and doomers are trying to do to us. < maybe some are just re evaluating priorities also. Do I really need a new car, my 'old' one is only 3 years old? Maybe I should put that money away for when i really need it- after I retire and have no pension or health insurance ( most people do not work for the governmentor universities ).... I see nothing wrong with it and wish today I'd have done more of that. NowI'm not stoppingmy Disney trips, let's not get silly, but new cars...a 'better' refrig - TV etc...definitely have a different view. I have 3 moreyears of high school to pay for andthencollege and 2 weddings.....I can pass on some commodities....and I think many others are doing the same. I'd downsize my house tomorrow if I could also - but the devaluization that has taken place precludes mefrom doing so today. Do I need 5 bedrooms instead of 3 - nope ! and those 1.1 mentioned - a good portionof them will lose their homes in 90-120 days also - as they cannot find re employment- or even close to the same salaries... that is not media doom and gloom,it is reality. Ask CEO's if they are hiring right now
Originally Posted By RoadTrip <<and those 1.1 mentioned - a good portionof them will lose their homes in 90-120 days also - as they cannot find re employment- or even close to the same salaries... that is not media doom and gloom,it is reality. Ask CEO's if they are hiring right now >> It is reality for a relatively small percentage of Americans. I would strongly support programs to help those Americans out. I just hate to see the bad fortune of a small percent of Americans make ALL Americans stop spending and send our economy further into the hole than necessary.
Originally Posted By Sport Goofy << I just hate to see the bad fortune of a small percent of Americans make ALL Americans stop spending and send our economy further into the hole than necessary. >> What you fail to acknowledge is that the economy isn't being sent into a hole. It's been in the hole for 2 decades. We've masked the whole thing by inventing schemes to loan people money and create debt so that it appears there is cash flow in the economy where there is not. Reality will set in for a lot of folks here in the next year. We're not getting out of this hole easily.
Originally Posted By SuperDry <<< maybe some are just re evaluating priorities also. Do I really need a new car, my 'old' one is only 3 years old? Maybe I should put that money away for when i really need it- after I retire and have no pension or health insurance ( most people do not work for the governmentor universities ).... >>> That's just the kind of reality that's killing Detroit right now, especially when they essentially bet the farm on continuing to be able to sell expensive, high-margin gas guzzlers. The caution mentioned in the above quote doesn't require an economic collapse of the country, half the people to lose their job, or a depression - just a relatively small change in reality coupled with a lot of people re-thinking things.
Originally Posted By MPierce >> MPierce, Who did you book this through? I guess it sounds like a good deal...And actually it must be a good deal... << That price quote is actually from the WDW web site. The problem is Disney has one of the worse web sites on the net. They have multiple listings, and you don't always get taken to the right site for your needs. Try this link. <a href="http://disneyworld.disney.go.com/wdw/special/offerDetail?id=FY09Q2ValueOfferPage&CMP=KNC-WDWGAPQ2GOLDGOO&HBX_PK=walt+disney+world&HBX_OU=50&s_kwcid=walt%20disney%20world" target="_blank">http://disneyworld.disney.go.c...%20world</a>|3008896368 If you call to book you will need the code from mousesavers.com, here's that link. <a href="http://www.mousesavers.com/packages.html#fairytale" target="_blank">http://www.mousesavers.com/pac...airytale</a>
Originally Posted By MPierce They don't make things easy because for some reason they want people to pay full price. Believe me if you go to their other sites they will quote you full price. Same thing goes for calling without the codes.
Originally Posted By fkurucz <<vbdad... (and others). I wouldn't have to give a damn. My income next year is going to be exactly the same whether the economy goes in the crapper or not.>> Last time I checked, most public universities were funded by taxpayers. If tax revenue plummets, how will all those State U's make ends meet?
Originally Posted By fkurucz <<It is reality for a relatively small percentage of Americans.>> Let's see... unemployment is approaching 7%, underemployment and those who have given up searching for a job is another 12%. In the next few months millions more will get their walking papers. Now add in many millions more in corporate America who won't be getting raises or bonuses this year. Yeah...small percentage.
Originally Posted By fkurucz <<That's just the kind of reality that's killing Detroit right now, especially when they essentially bet the farm on continuing to be able to sell expensive, high-margin gas guzzlers.>> The Japanese are hurting too. Fortunately for them they have ample war chests and a better cost structure to tough this crisis out, unlike Detroit. Also, cheap car loans are now hard to get for the less than credit worthy. Folks used to getting low interest no money down loans are now finding that down payments are required and many have to pay double digit interest rates. Many are underwater on their trade in. And forget about a HELOC to pay for the car.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 You know something .. if anything I don't think the media has been negative enough or has reported what is happening to many people. It's just largely one wave of negative numbers after another. Perhaps, they should start putting things in human terms. Instead of these mindless feel good stories about Iraq and the like that they usually tag their newscasts (network here) with. As we all know, I live in a very affluent community. Here's some snippets of a Sunday afternoon about two weeks before Christmas. -- The line at the local McDonald's drive-thru snaked back 20 cars ... why? Oh, because Sundays they have 49 cent hamburgers and 59 cent cheeseburgers. I got news for you ... this is typical now ... and, no, it wouldn't have been like that even a year ago. There's a reason for that ... much like all the major national chains lowering prices and offering deals to drive traffic. --I went and test drove a brand new 2009 high end sedan (sticker price of just over $41,000) ... no, I'm not in the market, just wanted to see if Hyundai's new Genesis was worthy of being mentioned in the same breath as Mercedes and BMW ... and (if you're interested) the answer is, shockingly, yes. But the dealership (again, in an area with loads of people who can and do buy cars like that with cash) was so desolate I almost expected tumbleweeds to blow thru. Hell, the salesman seemed so resigned that it was the most low-pressure I've ever felt ... he took me out for a 20-minute test drive and I was out of the place in about 40 minutes total! BTW, apparently, no one (no matter how good their credit) can actually get financing. He told me that about one or two in 10 is getting approved. Again, great to see how we gave trillions to Wall Street, yet they don't have to give Joe The Plumber or Joe Sixpack or Joe Average any credit at all. -- After the two prior stops I headed to the mall. Guess what? It's never a good sign when there are plenty of parking spaces on a Sunday. Worse when it is a Sunday at Christmas. Inside, the place was packed, but most people just seemed to want to go out and see Santa or grab a snack. Folks had bags, but they sure were small. Macy's had plenty of sales (got a great $86 shirt for $7.40), but plenty of the salespeople were standing near registers that weren't humming. But one bright spot (see I'll close on a high note) was the Disney Store. Sure, the place was filthy and had stuff all over the place and nothing that I'd want to buy. But there was a line at least 20 deep of people waiting to buy their toys and tees and mugs etc ... But things aren't nearly as bad as the media says ... they're much, MUCH worse.
Originally Posted By kennect Spirit, Was that shirt a nice button down? If so, I will run to Macy's here and pick up a few! What I find so funny is all of the Holiday advertising on television...They are running these ads but I just don't feel it this year...What is even funnier is my personal business...I have bitched about it already above...What is so strange is there are some people buying what I do but they aren't buying Holiday related merchandise...They are buying items that would sell normally any day of the year...But even at that it still isn't great by any means...Mid summer I was just wishing that Christmas couldn't get here soon enough thinking Nov. and Dec. would be great months for me...Well, you know how that has gone.....
Originally Posted By fkurucz <BTW, apparently, no one (no matter how good their credit) can actually get financing. He told me that about one or two in 10 is getting approved.>> Our local Chrysler/Dodge/Jeep dealer folded 2 weeks ago. They had been in business for decades. Unfortunately for them they chose to move into a fancy new facility 2 years ago. Had they stayed put in the old unglamorous facility they might have survived.
Originally Posted By fkurucz < just wanted to see if Hyundai's new Genesis was worthy of being mentioned in the same breath as Mercedes and BMW ... and (if you're interested) the answer is, shockingly, yes>> These might be good used deals in a couple of years. Of course it won't matter to me if I'm living under a bridge by then.
Originally Posted By RoadTrip <<Last time I checked, most public universities were funded by taxpayers. If tax revenue plummets, how will all those State U's make ends meet?>> The University currently has a hiring freeze in place and will more than likely have a salary freeze rather than the usual increases on July 1. Departments are being told to budget for cuts. The University is so large that they typically can absorb the cuts by not refilling vacant positions. Relatively few people lose their jobs; the ones that do typically are people they had been looking to get rid of anyway. None of that really impacts me since I will be retiring next June. The Minnesota State Retirement System is in excellent financial shape and will not be cutting retirement benefits. When it appears that they may not be able to hit their targets they increase the required employee and employer contributions; they do not decrease benefits. Here is what they have to say: << The events on Wall Street the past few weeks have raised questions about the financial impact of the volatile markets on Minnesota's public pension systems. The pension systems and the State Board of Investment (SBI), which invests Minnesota's pension assets, are monitoring the situation closely, however, the retirees and active members of Minnesota's statewide pension systems should feel assured that their benefits and pensions are safe and will be paid. Retiree benefits are not adjusted downward because of investment losses. The MSRS General Plan was in a strong financial position prior to the market decline-over 90% funded. This strong funding will help us to remain financially secure during this period of declining markets.>> Source: <a href="http://www.msrs.state.mn.us/info/bensecure08.htmls" target="_blank">http://www.msrs.state.mn.us/in...08.htmls</a>
Originally Posted By RoadTrip OK pessimists... here is your chance. Instead of just wringing your hands and gnashing your teeth about our horrible financial situation; please tell us what you would do about it. Whatever you think is necessary... government actions, private actions, whatever. Certainly folks with such insight and wisdom have good ideas on what we need to do.
Originally Posted By MPierce >> -- The line at the local McDonald's drive-thru snaked back 20 cars ... why? Oh, because Sundays they have 49 cent hamburgers and 59 cent cheeseburgers. I got news for you ... this is typical now ... and, no, it wouldn't have been like that even a year ago. There's a reason for that ... much like all the major national chains lowering prices and offering deals to drive traffic. << Which car was yours?
Originally Posted By MPierce >> Certainly folks with such insight and wisdom have good ideas on what we need to do. << Invest in Campbell's Soup.
