Originally Posted By basil fan If the movie is gonna get this kind of flak before it even opens, maybe Disney shouldn't even try to do black characters. They probably thought they had a cool story with cool characters, cool songs & cool animation. And now people aren't going to see it because they don't like the character's name. Donald Duck's Family Tree <a href="http://www.whatsitsgalore.com/disney/donald.html" target="_blank">http://www.whatsitsgalore.com/ disney/donald.html</a>
Originally Posted By BlueOhanaTerror >>>I don't really want the first princess that Disney creates to be have the slave name of 'Maddy', who is a 'chambermaid' in a story entitled the Frog Princess...<<< I understand you're not thrilled with the name... But if it's the idea of her being a slave, it might serve to remember that both Snow White, and Cinderella, before they came to their "redemption" moments, were both, essentially, "Slaves" to their stepmothers and/or household. In fact, "Cinderella" comes from "Little Cinder Girl" in the story, as one of her duties was to scoop up and dispose of cinders from the fireplace hearth. So there've been white slaves-turned-princesses in the Disney canon before. There's precedent for that type of character.
Originally Posted By TALL Disney Guy <In fact, "Cinderella" comes from "Little Cinder Girl" in the story, as one of her duties was to scoop up and dispose of cinders from the fireplace hearth.> Cinderella---"Ella of the Cinders" ;-)
Originally Posted By bpinca I love it -- I got the response that I expected. Those who are at least trying to understand my concern and those who just throw up their hands in exasperation and say "woe is Disney. They're trying their best and THEY are so unappreciative." I hope they DO try their best. If this is to be the first princess movie in years and POSSIBLY the first AA princess, then do it right so you won't have this type of controversy. Why would black people be offended at having a story called the Frog Princess -- heck you all were all on this board debating why Disney even chose that name. Why indeed? Does Maddy turn from a frog into a princess? Oh yeah, I forgot, she's a chambermaid who's singing the blues while she's cleaning the toilets of the Missus. I truly understand that she has to come from some hardship to become a princess - I remember what all of the princesses endured. However, none of those princesses ancestry is so rooted and still rooted in such a distasteful history. But then this is really all speculation. Maybe Disney has figured out how to do it. They will do some, how did you put it BasilFan, "cool story with cool characters, cool songs & cool animation", and everyone will be happy happy!!!
Originally Posted By bpinca One more thing--That was my last post. I have no desire to be seen as "the victim" over something that is pure speculation. Plus I don't want to put a damper on your pre pre pre release conversations by bringing up the black viewpoint. But don't fear I'm sure I'll be back online after the movie comes out -- but hopefully to say it's PERFECT...
Originally Posted By Liberty Belle >>Why would black people be offended at having a story called the Frog Princess -- heck you all were all on this board debating why Disney even chose that name<< Since bpinca has gone ... can anyone else explain why the name the Frog Princess is offensive to black people? I'm not trying to be facetious - I'm confused because I don't think she gave a proper explanation as to the problem with the title. The only discussion we've had here about wondering why they chose the title was related to the Frog Prince - not because it's "offensive".
Originally Posted By veu The main character of "Frog Princess" today is called not Maddy, but MANDY!!! The news is reportered by Alicia Keys at the site E online.
Originally Posted By actingforanimators The term "slave name" refers to the fact that when black Africans and West Indians were enslaved by the French and English and brought to the English Colonies, they spoke no English or French or Dutch or German or Spanish, but a native language that did not have surnames and given names like Mandy or Ariel or Belle or anything else of Euro/Greek/Roman origin, so the names that a majority of us think of as common are actually not the names these people had in their country of origin. The objection contemporary African Americans have to these names is that they are seen - by some - as a perpetuation of the enslavement that some of their ancestors endured, and thus the reason for many young African American men and women changing their names (statistics show that this is done most often by persons between the ages of 17 and 24)and essentially reclaiming their distant African or West Indian heritage. Sadly, it seldom comes with also learning the native language, but then again when was the last time someone named Mike O'Connor learned galic or one of the other dying Celtic languages that are soon to be extinct. As for the film, it's much more likely that the story will serves as a metaphor for escaping stereotypes and assumptions about race, class and gender in a time when it was particulary difficult to do, in a region notorious for class distinctions in spite of it having prospered thanks to the labor and talent and devotion of a largely opressed class and race (and, gender.) This is not to imply that the script will be politicized or built on platitudes - a sure fire way to sink any film - but will be sensitive to it, as good myths and legends for children often are. It's also important to point out that Disney produced a sadly seldom seen but magnificent short film based on the legend of John Henry, which is designed, directed and boarded with great insight and sensitivity to the contributions of black African people in the development and growth of the American west, and includes visual metaphors linked to unique traditions such as quilting.
Originally Posted By Jim On the subject as casting, I hope they look into using Felicia P. Fields, Sofia from THE COLOR PURPLE on Broadway. What a unique voice and an amazingly talented performer.
Originally Posted By basil fan John Henry is a GREAT film!! I hope Disney's first black princess will have an intersting personality and not be set up as some kind of perfect paragon. Nothing could be duller. Easy Disney Costumes <a href="http://www.whatsitsgalore.com/disney/costume.html" target="_blank">http://www.whatsitsgalore.com/ disney/costume.html</a>
Originally Posted By koobar i got this from a mtv portugal. alicia keys and jennifer hudson have expressed interest in playing maddy. roughly tranlated: The notice was still not confirmed, but already rumors run of that Alicia Keys wants to changed itself into one of the characters of the next Disney animated film, "The Frog Princess". The story takes place in New Orleans, during the age of the Jazz. According to the paper, Keys would give voice to a called girl Maddy and would sing songs scored by Randy Newman. However, there is competition for the part. One source says that Jennifer Hudson, nominated for the Oscar best supporting actress for her role in "Dreamgirls", also is in the race. The reason for as much interest is simple: Maddy is the first black princess in the Disney history. <a href="http://www.mtv.pt/mtv.pt/news/index.jhtml;jsessionid=JGVBVW20KE4JHQFIAIISFFGAVABBEIV0?articleId=100134915" target="_blank">http://www.mtv.pt/mtv.pt/news/ index.jhtml;jsessionid=JGVBVW20KE4JHQFIAIISFFGAVABBEIV0?articleId=100134915</a>
Originally Posted By sapphireprima I'm more for Jennifer than Alicia. I do hope the actress for Maddy/Mandy is unknown though.
Originally Posted By BlueOhanaTerror >>>As for the film, it's much more likely that the story will serves as a metaphor for escaping stereotypes and assumptions about race, class and gender in a time when it was particulary difficult to do,<<< There are these elements, definitely. Maddy's trying to "get out" from under, and she has her dreams. Just FYI, for the Witches particularly, the beginning of the movie does reference "THE FROG PRINCE" as its own story, that the movie's story kind of leaps from (pun intended)...
Originally Posted By BlueOhanaTerror ^^^Sorry, that wasn't very clear. In the opening scene (I'm guessing it's not a spoiler if it's the very first thing in the movie) the story of THE FROG PRINCE is being read to a couple of principal characters by their nursemaid. There's a funny reaction from one of the characters, that pretty much sets up her personality, and the whole movie to follow. I can tell you the villain in this movie is VERY interesting, and the characters are pretty cool overall. However, I was surprised in reading the script (I managed to get my hands on a copy) that there is no attempt at political correctness with dialogue. It's very "Gone With the Wind". I mean REALLY GWTW in the way people speak... even though that was Atlanta, and this is Louisiana... The dialects... let's just say some people are going to be offended, and others are going to feel it's very refreshing and honest.
Originally Posted By FerretAfros Perhaps this will help soften up the market some (not meant in a bad or mean way at all) to finally release SOTS. SOTS is a great movie, and I really thought that it portrayed the whites in a more negative role, so hopefully they can use the Frog Princess as a starting point, even if nothing happens for many years.
Originally Posted By tcsnwhite "It's very "Gone With the Wind". I mean REALLY GWTW in the way people speak... even though that was Atlanta, and this is Louisiana... The dialects... let's just say some people are going to be offended, and others are going to feel it's very refreshing and honest." I think that if it is going to be authentic, honest, and truly real, that the dialect and dialogue in the film should be as it was. As someone of mixed race, African-American being one of them, I would personally prefer that we be represented in a positive way, but more importantly, an honest way that shows the moments of joy and oppression that we experienced as a people. I recognize that this is the way some (not all) black folks spoke, especially if they were slaves. Obviously black people did not get the education or opportunities that the Euro-Americans did, thus the natural speech of the people reflected this. While much of our history is not pleasant, we cannot deny the realities of the situation- much of which shaped our culture. Also, this film takes place in the south, and Euro-American and African American people all had a 'southern' way of speaking, and you can even hear it in folks today. Regardless, we cannot sugarcoat history. And I am glad somebody has the guts within Disney to be honest in their story-telling. In the end, it is one thing to depict things as they were; it is another to go over the top and take it out of context and reality for the sake of entertainment and perpetuating stereotypes. I do not believe Disney would do that anyway.
Originally Posted By Jim Look at Zora Neale Hurston's masterpiece THEIR EYES WERE WATCHING GOD, which takes place in that general area (I know at one point the characters are in New Orleans). Hurston was a researcher, and her characters speak a very thick dialect that must have been true to how people spoke in that era. I'm sure Disney won't embarass itself, though, of course, times change, and in 30 years, it could then be banned.
Originally Posted By bobbelee9 Yes bring back SOTS. That was such a great movie. Haven't seen it in years, my kids barely remember it, and my youngest (24) has never seen it. Great story.