Originally Posted By believe >>>>>Everybody knows that Disney has tons of money. The difference between Pixar, DCA improvements, and Marvel is that all those projects are expected to yield far more than what has been invested over the long term.<<<<<< If Disney can afford to lose $800 million (forgot the search engine - wasn't it Go.com?), what's another $200M? Besides, at worst, I'd say it would break even. Look at the strawberry field they bought for $80 some odd millon not too long ago. Talk about money loser. It hasn't generated them a cent. At least with AGW, they can collect rent, collect parking fees, from day one with zero expenditure. In the future, they can do the peoplemover thing and basically own the resort area. ie DTD East. Once you conveniently connect the two shopping areas, with a fun/convenient transportation, they've got it made. Do something better than the tram at City Center in Vegas.
Originally Posted By Sport Goofy << At least with AGW, they can collect rent, collect parking fees, from day one with zero expenditure. >> Well, except for the property taxes on developed land, payroll/administrative costs, insurance costs, facilities maintenance, utilities expenses, and the overhead of running a retail shopping mall.
Originally Posted By Dr Hans Reinhardt "If Disney can afford to lose $800 million (forgot the search engine - wasn't it Go.com?), what's another $200M? Besides, at worst, I'd say it would break even." No company can afford to lose $800 million. Disney management got slammed for that boneheaded decision. Breaking even isn't an option for a big gun like the Walt Disney Co. They are in business to make money and shareholders would question why Disney is purchasing a mall that doesn't generate income. Would you invest in a business that didn't make any money for you? << At least with AGW, they can collect rent, collect parking fees, from day one with zero expenditure. >> "Well, except for the property taxes on developed land, payroll/administrative costs, insurance costs, facilities maintenance, utilities expenses, and the overhead of running a retail shopping mall." Exactly
Originally Posted By wachawacha If Disney bought the Garden Walk.........They could open up all the parking structures to Disneyland resort guests today. They could pave over the big dirt tracts that are supposed to become hotels. Within a few weeks they could add an addition 2-3000 additional parking spaces. That would instantly create revenue. They could open up a temp Disney Quest just by using the open retail spaces inside of the Garden Walk. They already a a second if not third set of everything that is found at Disney Quest with all the stuff left from the Chicago location and with the almost finished but never complete Philadelphia location. These would be just stop gap ideas. However it would add some excitement to a rather dull location. It would also generate revenue for Disney and the existing renters. And all of this would be able to be done with little to add on costs. Of course Disney could add retail and other thing under the Disney banner. Heck Disney could offer DQ at a discount to passholders and that would get all the 1 million or so passholders over there just to take a look. This would allow Disney the time to finish development of DCA and then start on whatever is going to happen next. AKA a new parking structure/s or a new park.
Originally Posted By Sport Goofy << They could open up a temp Disney Quest just by using the open retail spaces inside of the Garden Walk. >> DQ was a big fail for Disney, and I don't see them trying to recreate that failure again.
Originally Posted By believe >>>>Would you invest in a business that didn't make any money for you?<<<< I'm talking worst case scenario in the short term. Of course not, but in the long run, you will make big bucks. Why else would Disney have bought the strawberry field for nearly $1M/acre to become a non-income generating employee parking lot? Why, because of the long term possibility of big profits. - Even Walt wished he could have bought everything around DL, but he didn't have enough $. With Garden Walk, it's built already. They don't have to wait 2 years to get something built and earn income. It's there already. Nowadays, companys like to do short term gain at the expense of long term. Look what happened to the Disney Store and DL during the Pressler era - profits were great short term, but it hurt them long term.
Originally Posted By Dr Hans Reinhardt You make some valid points believe. Maybe I'm biased and my dislike of AGW is the problem. While I can see how an empty canvas like the strawberry field would be appealing (they can always sell empty land for a profit), but it seems like a major investment would have to be made just to get AGW suitable for Disney's needs.
Originally Posted By dshyates I would think the hotel parcels alone would be incentive enough for Disney to buy the place. If they got the hotels up pretty quick and ran a peoplemover or at least a pedestrian bridge across Harbor Blvd. then GardenWalk would be a success. Particularly if they could include a show theater with something like a Cirque show.
Originally Posted By Sport Goofy << While I can see how an empty canvas like the strawberry field would be appealing (they can always sell empty land for a profit), but it seems like a major investment would have to be made just to get AGW suitable for Disney's needs. >> The tax rates on the undeveloped land are also a lot less than on the developed property, meaning less overhead to carry that real estate on the books going forward.
Originally Posted By believe I guess we're just armchairing it, since we don't really know the financial numbers. However, we do know that it would be to the advantage of Disney to own more/all the property around the resort area if they really wanted it to be a WDW West.
Originally Posted By Sport Goofy << However, we do know that it would be to the advantage of Disney to own more/all the property around the resort area if they really wanted it to be a WDW West. >> The secret to WDW was that they bought the property for cheap. You don't duplicate WDW by simply having land -- it has to be cheap land.
Originally Posted By Dr Hans Reinhardt The multi theme park model is the blueprint for all of their destinations worldwide, not just in Orlando. However, I don't think Disney has any ambitions to transform DLR into a west coast version of WDW, especially with land values what they are as Sport Goofy pointed out. WDW is twice the size of Manhattan, or about the size of San Francisco. Something on that scale will never be built in Anaheim.
Originally Posted By dshyates While DLR will never be on the scope of WDW, I don't think it is beyoond their reach to make a land grad on the scale of GardenWalk and make the most of it.
Originally Posted By Sport Goofy << I don't think it is beyoond their reach to make a land grad on the scale of GardenWalk and make the most of it. >> I think the point that escapes most people is that there is nothing to make out of GardenWalk. It is a failed retail shopping mall. The country is littered with failed or struggling retail outlets these days. There is too much retail out there still. It's not a business model that anyone wants to be in right now. The largest mall operators in the country are on the ropes -- the second largest mall operator is in bankruptcy right now. I know that we've managed to invent a myth in America that real estate is always a good investment, but there are many instances where it is not. The country is littered with casualties of failed real estate deals right now -- and the prospects of a recovery are probably a decade away if history gives us any clues about how long it takes to get over major slumps like we're in now.
Originally Posted By dshyates But there is a big difference between less than a block from Disneyland and 12 miles from downtown Paducha, KY.
