Originally Posted By TP2000 Yeah, 10 bucks says they are going to brand this as a Great Wolf Lodge. There's a Great Wolf Lodge with a huge indoor water park south of Seattle that opened a couple years ago. It's vacancy rate is abysmal, the local visitation to the water park has been very weak, and it's rumored to be closed soon.
Originally Posted By Dr Hans Reinhardt The concept of Great Wolf makes absolutely zero sense to me. I just don't get it.
Originally Posted By dizmomof3 The Great Wolf Lodge south of Seattle appears to be doing just fine. I am scheduled to be there next weekend and it is booked pretty solid. The place was packed on my last visit. There weren't many discounts offered during Spring Break either.
Originally Posted By SuperDry <<< The concept of Great Wolf makes absolutely zero sense to me. I just don't get it. >>> As far as I can tell, the concept of Great Wolf is that they provide a budget family vacation in non-traditional vacation locations. That is, they provide a way for a family to take a relatively inexpensive vacation and have entertainment for the kids included on-site at no additional cost. The target market is those that live within a day's driving distance and will use it as their "destination" vacation, and those that are on longer driving vacations and will use it as a place to stop for a day or two. They're not typically located in existing destination vacation locations. I have no idea if such an idea is viable in general, but the results of Great Wolf might indicate that it's not. I said "in general" because I think that such an idea might actually work at DLR. The proposition there would seem to be that for not much more than a comparable-quality resort hotel, you get an on-site, free water park. Even though it will not draw people to DLR in of itself, it seems to me that it might have a strong enough sales pitch that it will attract families that are already planning to go to DLR. I guess we'll find out when and if the place actually gets built, but it sounds a lot more viable than some of the other ideas that have come out of Garden Grove in recent years.
Originally Posted By wachawacha This park and hotel is going to be way to small to compete in So Cal. It might get the initial bump because it is new. But how are they going to add anything. They have houses along one side. If they think Disneyland had problems with local home owners I can only imagine this place.
Originally Posted By SuperDry <<< This park and hotel is going to be way to small to compete in So Cal. >>> If you're talking about the hotel/waterpark concept in Garden Grove, I have to disagree with you. In fact, I'd take the exact opposite position: if the concept as initially planned is profitable, then the smaller the better. This is because it takes less guests to fill it to capacity. <<< But how are they going to add anything. >>> My same comment applies. If the initial concept is profitable if they are able to fill the rooms to capacity, than growth potential may not be an issue. Consider any number of the other non-Disney lodging options in the area. Is the Candy Cane Inn profitable as is? Presumably it is, since it's been there for years and years and continues to operate. Does it have expansion options? Absolutely not. Does this lack of expandability mean it's not profitable?
Originally Posted By TP2000 dizmom3 - Good to know the Great Wolf in Centralia isn't closed yet, and/or appears to be doing okay. I got my info from getting stuck talking to some Lesbians at a rather eclectic Tacoma cocktail party back in January. When the conversation with them wasn't about baseball or home improvement, it briefly touched on Great Wolf. One of the ladies works for Weyerhaeuser in their property management office, and they've got lots of land south of Federal Way. She had heard through her industry contacts that the Great Wolf parent company wasn't doing well, and the Centralia location in particular had occupancy rates and visitor spending figures that were "abysmal". I also got some great tips on when to spread mulch in the garden during a mild winter.
Originally Posted By fkurucz "The City Council voted 4-0 during Tuesday's meeting in favor of a change in a developer agreement with Colorado-based McWhinney. "
Originally Posted By fkurucz ^^Oops hit the post button by accident. Anyway, McWhinney is out local RE shyster here in Loveland. He developed the mall that I mentioned earlier that I mentioned is in foreclosure. He is an EXPERT in get local taxpayers to foor the bill for everything. Watch your wallet Garden Grove, Chad McWhinney will pick it clean.
Originally Posted By Dr Hans Reinhardt "When the conversation with them wasn't about baseball or home improvement, it briefly touched on Great Wolf." LOL!
Originally Posted By Dr Hans Reinhardt "When the conversation with them wasn't about baseball or home improvement, it briefly touched on Great Wolf." LOL!
Originally Posted By dshyates How these waterpark hotels got their start makes a lot if sense. The first ones were built in the Wisconsin Dells area. For a lot of the year it is bitter cold. And these hotels have more than just an indoor waterpark. They also have HUGE arcades, several restaurants, indoor playgrounds similar to the Pooh Playground, a kids club, and a teen club. Some also have indoor minigolf. For the adults they have a Spa, a lounge, and a huge adults only hot tub that, while in the main waterpark area, is seperated from the craziness of the kids area. And while GWL is having a bit of financial trouble, it is not because of the lack of popularity, it is because they have expanded the chain too quickly. Also for the most part they do put them around tourist areas, just not tourist areas that are already saturated with hotel rooms. They have a GWL near Cedar Point, Kings Island, Busch Gardens Williamsburg, Kennywood, and Charlotte Motor Speedway/Carowinds
Originally Posted By dshyates Oh, I should add that Orlando just got thier first indoor waterpark resort. Coco Key Resort just opened on I-Drive on Thursday. <a href="http://behindthethrills.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=560:exclusive-look-at-orlandos-newest-waterpark-coco-key&catid=64:news-&Itemid=121" target="_blank">http://behindthethrills.com/in...emid=121</a> Also note that ALL of these indoor waterpark hotels have large outdoor waterparks
Originally Posted By Sport Goofy << And while GWL is having a bit of financial trouble, it is not because of the lack of popularity >> If you bother to read the financial disclosures for Great Wolf, you will find that their occupancy rates aren't significantly higher than the national average for hotel lodging. In other words, they aren't any more popular than the Holiday Inn down the street. In order for Great Wolf to generate the kind of cash flow it needs to maintain a hotel and water park property, it needs to have nearly 100% occupancy throughout the year. None of their locations are anyhwhere close to that. Some do great business on weekends, other during school holidays, but none are very full during the week when school is in session.
Originally Posted By SuperDry <<< If you bother to read the financial disclosures for Great Wolf, you will find that their occupancy rates aren't significantly higher than the national average for hotel lodging. In other words, they aren't any more popular than the Holiday Inn down the street. >>> Occupancy isn't the only way they could be successful. If they had the same occupancy as the Holiday Inn down the street, but the average room rate was more than the marginal cost of adding the waterpark, then that could work as well. In any event, I think the business model for a GWL or similar in Garden Grove would be completely different than it would be for other locations. A DL-area location would be unlikely to attract any additional guests to the area, or generate any additional vacations - virtually 100% of the guests would be people going to Disneyland. But, of the people going to DL, the waterpark might be a good incentive to pick that hotel over others in the area. They may be able to drive high occupancy and/or a higher room rate on that basis.
Originally Posted By believe It all depends on how much they charge per night. If it's the same price as Hilton, or better yet, Howard Johnsons, you bet it's going to be busy.
Originally Posted By believe Problem with Great Wolf is that it costs more than, say Embassy Suites - but that's fine if you planned on going to a water park anyways.
Originally Posted By Dr Hans Reinhardt I'm trying to understand who would stay at one of these properties without kids. With families pretty much on vacation lock down until school recesses and holidays how do these places turn a profit?
Originally Posted By SuperDry Are you saying that families with kids don't go to DL when school is in session?
