Originally Posted By crapshoot <<DCA is a theme park not another run of the mill shopping area.>> DCA is still primarily a pay to play strip mall with free county fair attractions attached to it. Three years from now I hope to be better impressed, but won't hold my breath in the meantime. <<There is at least 3 others. Irvine spectrum, Irvine district, Tustin marketplace and the block at orange. All are thriving and doing well. Those places are major for tourists.>> Actually, the Block at Orange is not doing all that well. They have lost virtually every key anchor store that opened with the place. Hilo Hatties, Ron Jon (which actually replaced an original store), Virgin Mega Store and many small retailers are gone and are not replaced by any other anchor businesses. The current replacements are basically all deep discount type businesses. Cheap rent. <<Those places are major for tourists.>> The others that you mention are not considered to be in the same market and do little to bolster the Anaheim / DL market.
Originally Posted By LOVE-DCA >>I don't know what research you are referring to, but I find it hard to believe that a commercial enterprise like GardenWalk shouldn't work in that location if planned properly. The biggest problem with place from my standpoint (a tourist) is that there is nothing there worth doing or seeing. The shops and restaurants aren't compelling enough for me to leave DLR and investigate.<< I don’t know what research sporty goofy was referring to also ,but I was referring to the fact that they should of checked out other outside shopping malls and seen how they strive, and what kinds of shops are interesting. That was the research I was referring to, well and also that there is 3 others just like in a 10 mile or so radius. Now those greedy developers aren’t making ANY money. Like I said before, who will buy and invest now on that loan? Who take the chance?
Originally Posted By LOVE-DCA Well I havn’t been to the block in a while , so I didn’t know it wasn’t doing well. The other two I mention as they are located in socal, it is considered a attraction for tourists to see. I watched the video on the tv on places to see for tourists at the hojo, an both fashion island(one I didn’t mention) and Irvine spectrum were mentioned. So what does that do for DG, well it pulls business away, and when you don’t have business you aren’t bringing in money
Originally Posted By fkurucz >>Like I said before, who will buy and invest now on that loan? Who take the chance?<< For the right price, someone will. The only question is whether or not whoever financed GW will cut their losses and dump it at a steep discount or hang on to it with the vain hope that it will recover.
Originally Posted By crapshoot Well in defense of Garden Walk Mk-2, it should have never been built. When the first and more grandiose version was planned but failed to keep its Asian backers, that should have been it. It ended up that Garden Walk went down the same exact path that DCA did. Disney nixed the more expensive Westcot plan for a cheaper plan and is now paying big for it. Not saying whether Westcot would have faired any better. But $210 million is a lot to gamble to lose, just like $1.2 billion.
Originally Posted By LOVE-DCA If I was a property investor, I would not take my chances on that place.
Originally Posted By LOVE-DCA I still think that instead of the garden walk, a nice water park would have been cool on that property!!
Originally Posted By Dr Hans Reinhardt "I was referring to the fact that they should of checked out other outside shopping malls and seen how they strive, and what kinds of shops are interesting. That was the research I was referring to, well and also that there is 3 others just like in a 10 mile or so radius." Seems like they would have at least taken those places into consideration before starting their venture in Anaheim. As soon as I saw the lineup of tenants at GardenWalk I predicted that it would be a flop.
Originally Posted By believe You've got to admin that the parking lot is worth some sort of money. They can "force" guests to walk thru the mall before getting on a tram to get to the park entrance.
Originally Posted By SuperDry <<< The only question is whether or not whoever financed GW will cut their losses and dump it at a steep discount or hang on to it with the vain hope that it will recover. >>> If the below post from earlier in the thread is accurate, I don't think the above is an open question any more: <<< Gardenwalk foreclosure auction, March 9th, 10:00 AM, on the steps of the Placentia Civic Center. >>>
Originally Posted By fkurucz FWIW, foreclosure auctions are often just an attempt to sell off the mortgage at face value. More often than not no one bites and the lien holder ends up with the mortgage. The real unloading of the property will happen later.
Originally Posted By fkurucz <<They can "force" guests to walk thru the mall before getting on a tram to get to the park entrance.>> You mean like at Universal? The only we ever stopped to buy there was a cinnabon.
Originally Posted By Sport Goofy << I don't know what research you are referring to, but I find it hard to believe that a commercial enterprise like GardenWalk shouldn't work in that location if planned properly. >> Urban malls have been on the decline for a decade now. They have been replaced by big box strip malls, Walmarts, and Targets. All of the country's major mall developers have been hurting -- even before the recession. Given just those basic trends, along with the saturation of retail already in the marketplace, plus a less than prime location in the Anaheim resort district all give plenty of reasons why this project should never have gotten off the ground. Americans have all bought into the cult of real estate and retail. Real estate and retail do very little for the economy in comparison to manufacturing and industry. In some cases, real estate and retail consume more government resources than they ever contribute back to the economy. These projects, even when successful for the developer, are often not big contributors to the overall health of the community. Yet, we saw for over a decade, an attitude where trillions of dollars were flushed away into the real estate toilet so that our communities and cities could learn these lessons the hard way. In many cases, the lessons still have not been learned -- witness the number of cheerleaders left for resurrecting a second-rate shopping mall here in this thread.
Originally Posted By Dr Hans Reinhardt "Urban malls have been on the decline for a decade now. They have been replaced by big box strip malls, Walmarts, and Targets. All of the country's major mall developers have been hurting -- even before the recession." That may be true in general, but as a growing tourist destination Anaheim could and should be bucking that trend. All one has to do is look at DTD to see the correct way to develop a project like this. It's wedged between two theme parks and three large hotel properties with easy walking access to all. Not only that there's content that draws both locals and tourists. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that GW's major failing was in its content. The place has no draw.
Originally Posted By Manfried It comes down to that basic real estate rule. Everyone repeat after me: Location, location, location.
Originally Posted By Sport Goofy << All one has to do is look at DTD to see the correct way to develop a project like this. It's wedged between two theme parks and three large hotel properties with easy walking access to all. Not only that there's content that draws both locals and tourists >> Tourists don't do heavy duty shopping on vacation. Witness all of the malls inside the hotels on the Vegas strip that have closed/downsized during the past several years. Tourists don't go to the Gap to buy clothes while they're on vacation. They can do that at home.
Originally Posted By LOVE-DCA …I still think a Disney themed water park would have been better on that property. >>Tourists don't go to the Gap to buy clothes while they're on vacation. They can do that at home.<< Ok wait time out –that is not all true, park guests aka tourists from other places (outside of the 50 states) other then the united states do not have a GAP. I just looked. And Disneyland has a lot of park guests that come from out of town other then the united states…
Originally Posted By LOVE-DCA >>Everyone repeat after me: Location, location, location.<< Location,location,location.. ohh well you said repeat after you!
Originally Posted By Dr Hans Reinhardt "Tourists don't do heavy duty shopping on vacation." Didn't I say that there's nothing compelling over there for tourists? DTD has a good mix - shopping, dining, entertainment, proximity to hotels, etc. The perception is that GW is nothing more than just a boring shopping center.
Originally Posted By TomSawyer The only place that I do a lot of shopping while on vacation is Oregon because they don't have a sales tax. And the last thing Orange County needs is another shopping mall. I think someone needs to build something like a Great Wolf Lodge on the property that combines a nicely themed hotel with a good waterpark.
