Originally Posted By DouglasDubh <Douglas's whole anti-gay marriage diatribe is empty rhetoric based on discredited sources.> No, it's not.
Originally Posted By PetesDraggin "There's fewer marriages, more divorces, and fewer births, and more of them are out-of-wedlock. This is not good for society." The fewer births part actually sounds like a good thing. The earth is over populated as it is.
Originally Posted By Elderp "The earth is over populated as it is." The way we live now it is overpopulated. I read once that if we all lived at the density level of New York City we could fit in Texas.
Originally Posted By X-san ***The way we live now it is overpopulated. I read once that if we all lived at the density level of New York City we could fit in Texas.*** Elder, it's not just about space. Even if such a thing WERE possible (it's not), there is still the issue of food, water, and fuel for an ever expanding population...much of which is already starving. Overpopulation is a bad thing, just ask China. That eliminates the crux of Douglas' argument, by the way. So, logically speaking, he should change his position and become pro-gay marriage. Assuming he's not prejudiced, of course.
Originally Posted By X-san ***Gay marriage is not necessary for the continuance of society, since gay couples cannot produce children.*** This is simply not true. Male couples can't directly produce children, that's true, but women can quite easily. There are a number of options. Not to mention the fact that there are plenty of kids out there that need to be adopted. That is also a necessary role to play in a compassionate society. Of course, prejudice precludes gay adoption. ***The evidence is that places that have allowed gay marriage are seeing marriage rates falling at an increased rate since gay marriage was introduced. There's fewer marriages, more divorces, and fewer births, and more of them are out-of-wedlock. Where can I find this evidence?
Originally Posted By DouglasDubh <The fewer births part actually sounds like a good thing. The earth is over populated as it is.> Parts of it our. The places that are encouraging gay marriage aren't, and their populations are falling.
Originally Posted By u k fan <<<Gay marriage is not necessary for the continuance of society, since gay couples cannot produce children. Therefore, encouraging gay marriages leads to a devaluing of marriage as a step toward procreation>>> So straight marriages between people who can't or don't want to have children also devalues marriage? <<<people stop seeing it as promoting a family, and start seeing it as only promoting a romantic couple.>>> To some family and romantic couple are one and the same. Who says I must have kids to be part of a family?
Originally Posted By u k fan <<<The earth is over populated as it is... The places that are encouraging gay marriage aren't, and their populations are falling.>>> Possibly because they're more enlightened and responsible towards their citizens?!!!
Originally Posted By DouglasDubh <This is simply not true.> Yes, it is. <Where can I find this evidence?> Here's a good place to start. This guy has looked into it, and written a series of essays about it. <a href="http://www.weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/003/660zypwj.asp" target="_blank">http://www.weeklystandard.com/...ypwj.asp</a> <a href="http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=M2QzNDA3YWYwNmZjYWUyMDA4NzI0ODc0YTQ5ZTM1NWQ=" target="_blank">http://article.nationalreview....ZTM1NWQ=</a> <a href="http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=ZjRiNzQyNDM3OTE2ZWVhOGU1NGY4ZjcwZDZjZjRmMTE=" target="_blank">http://article.nationalreview....ZjRmMTE=</a> <a href="http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=MzU1NzVkYWFiNzZhNTljNjcxZDZkZDlkZmQ1Y2YyODk=" target="_blank">http://article.nationalreview....Y2YyODk=</a>
Originally Posted By SingleParkPassholder Mostly opinion articles Doug, taking data and twisting it to fit an opinion. So far you've produced no credible evidence. If you did, I'd consider it, but so far, you haven't.
Originally Posted By SingleParkPassholder "So straight marriages between people who can't or don't want to have children also devalues marriage?" That would be my marriage, and I was a long time ago told by Douglas that my marriage does not benefit society. Isn't that nice?
Originally Posted By X-san ***<This is simply not true.> Yes, it is.*** No, it's not. A female gay couple can have a child just as easily as a straight couple. Aside from sperm banks and options along those lines, it is as simple as one of the women going out and getting herself pregnant. You're argument doesn't hold water.
Originally Posted By X-san ***That would be my marriage, and I was a long time ago told by Douglas that my marriage does not benefit society.*** That's a foolish, out of touch way of looking at things. But don't forget, this from a guy who has no compunction against destroying nature for a few more gallons of gas to satiate our overpopulated, overindulgent planet in the first place. What else would you expect the guy to say? Considering the overpopulation problems already mentioned, not to mention the fact that the world already has far too many orphans, and also kids born into poverty level, single-parent situations, and all the rest..you are probably much more beneficial to society than many people (married or otherwise) who ARE having kids these days.
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan Everytime someone says that gay marriage would weaken the institution of traditional marriage, you just remember how people used to say that mixed racial marriages would "destroy the white race." It is the same sort of bigotry, in service of a different cause. If this makes anyone uncomfortable, good. That means you have a conscience, and will one day see reason.
Originally Posted By mele I'm not a SCI-FI geek so will someone please tell me why I need to be so worried about the population dying out hundreds of years from now? (Maybe God created gay people to help control the Earth’s population. Maybe that’s why we have diseases and death that make children orphans in the first place. How do we know that all we’re supposed to do on this Earth is keep it heavily populated?) It seems that a lot of people who are against the idea of Global Warming (and governmental regulations against corporations) are also against gay marriage. I guess it's GREAT for big business to possibly threaten our future populations out of pure greed (it's the American way!) but gays wanting equality in their own personal lives with their loved ones is something that must be stopped. I didn’t realize things were so peachy around the globe right now. Gays ruin everything. So, the population is falling because gay people (whom you've already pointed out "can't" produce children) are allowed to marry. As if by magic, once gays said their marriage vows, straight women in the country instantly stopped ovulating. Nobody felt the need to procreate anymore all because of the gays. (Hm, there couldn’t be OTHER factors involved there. Marriages were STRONG before! Just that dirty gays ruined wonderful domestic bliss and childbearing for the lovely straight people.) If people don't pursue their dreams, their loves, their desires to procreate simply because gay people have chosen to do so, it's their own damn faults, not gays' faults. (Seriously, do we really believe that couples said to themselves “I’d really like to get married and have children but the gays ruined it for me. What’s the point now?†“I was going to have children but my gay neighbors got married and I just couldn’t go through with it.â€) To blame gays is ridiculous. To blame ANYONE for someone else's actions is ridiculous. I know there is one political party in this country that says it’s all about personal responsibility. Where does that fall into place here? **** So, Global warming is a myth and gays ruining society is a proven fact. Alrighty. **** Our societies are just as doomed (if not more) as long as we refuse to acknowledge that EVERY single person deserves the same rights that we have. The societies that refuse to acknowledge this DESERVE to die out.
Originally Posted By mele Fear that gays are going to ruin society...how is this belief not the *definition* of homophobia? It seems like people who believe this want us to believe that the ruination of society is a logical conclusion but it's CLEARLY hystereical and based only on their own emotional predjudices. That's why they can't understand why no one agrees with them. The belief IS illogical. They also seem to get angry and defensive when called homophobic. Hilarious!
Originally Posted By DouglasDubh <Mostly opinion articles Doug, taking data and twisting it to fit an opinion. So far you've produced no credible evidence.> No one has ever shown how the data is twisted or why it's not credible. It's simply been dismissed. And I've produced more evidence than anybody else has.
Originally Posted By SingleParkPassholder "No one has ever shown how the data is twisted or why it's not credible. It's simply been dismissed. And I've produced more evidence than anybody else has." More opinion, no facts.
