Originally Posted By jdub >>And people who send text messages in movie theaters!!!<< K I L L T H E M .
Originally Posted By X-san People really DO that? I haven't seen it (but then again, I don't go to the movies much...I dutifully conceived a four year old and well, that was that for movie going ). I do recall having my cellphone chime at the movies once and I felt very bad about it. I even had it on "silence mode" but it was an alarm or some such and was really noisy. I really should be stricken from marriage eligibility for that one! ;p
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan >>People really DO that?<< A lot of people do! It is insane. I don't go to the movies very often, but the last few times there have been people throughout teh theaters texting busily throughout the movie, and then holding their phones up to the people they're at the theater with to let them read a message occassionally, too!
Originally Posted By jdub See, rude cell phone usage--THAT is the kind of stuff that needs to be constitutionally prohibited!
Originally Posted By SingleParkPassholder "I admire your patience, Dabob. I've lost mine." Yeah. There was a time when I thought he really wanted to exchange views, but he does nothing but belittle and twist, then accuse us of doing the same thing to him. His whining about personal attacks got old a long time ago. He has no interest in debating at all. Why he keeps coming back is a mystery.
Originally Posted By DAR 50 years ago we used to deny a blacks in this country the right to eat at a restaraunt with whites We made them go to the back of the bus. There were bathrooms that were "whites only." Of course that type of behavior was rightfully condemned. Although I have to wonder how many black people cross the street or lock their doors when they see a white person approaching. Today homosexuals are denied the right to be married, to which I say go nuts if you want to be married. You could make the argument and I will admit it's a flimsy one that we have progressed somewhat in our bigotry as a society. We're finding one specific thing to discriminate against.
Originally Posted By mele I think the more we discuss this, show people why equality is important, show people that gay relationships are just like their own relationships, the more we do that, the more people will change their views. The tit-for-tat "you said this", "no YOU said it" in our posts just turns people away. We have to get people to see that gay people deserve the very same rights that they, themselves use (and abuse) everyday. The more people see gays as their equals, the more inclined they are going to be to change their views. People rarey worry that that an abstract "institution" is harmed...they care about real people. Marriage is a concept, a verb. They need to see REAL people being discriminated against, not concepts. Let Doug post his links, even counter them with your own links. Let him say "no it's not". Then he'll say that we're not worth the time to respond and that's that. Let it be over. He'll never win over anyone with that inert argument. Perfect! It's just not worth the effort to speak directly to him. Doing so distracts everyone from talking about the real issue, which I'm pretty sure is why he does it. Why else would he post here? He deflects the conversation away from the issue and makes it about himself. That way people stop discussing the issue. He apparently gets some sort of charge out of coming here and bickering with everyone. Why give him that satisfaction? We already know what his posts will say anyway, word for word. Nothing new to back up his argument, you prove him wrong every single time. Bor-ing. His argument has no power...but we give him power when we let him distract us and it lessens our arguments. We should spend more time talking about the loose threads that Kar2oonMan was referring to, the ones that focus on the humanity of us ALL. Doug conveniently never answers those questions, showing that's where our focus should be. Those are the REAL things that will get people to view gays as their true equals. Nitpicking nuances in a study of the Netherlands will not.
Originally Posted By mele Grrr! ***People rarely worry that an abstract "institution" is harmed...they care about real people. Marriage is a concept, a verb. They need to see REAL people being discriminated against, not concepts.
Originally Posted By Elderp "but I hope I've been around long enough for people to know I don't bother with telling lies to "advance my position" or anything ridiculous like that." Then why not say it like it is, why cloak your arguements? "If I were god, I'd take offense at such suggestions." Heck, if I were God, I'd strike you down for putting words in mouth. Luckily I am not, and he is far more benevolent than I am. "Interesting that it "miraculously" occurred in the 1970's, " I do, if the church just wanted to play the easy route it could of done it a lot earlier. "There's no way on earth you can offer a reasonable retort to the facts at hand, " I will have to agree with you there, I hope to one day understand it. I will say there are a lot of other things God has done that I don't understand, but that doesn't meam I will cease to believe in God.
Originally Posted By BlueDevilSF >>We have to get people to see that gay people deserve the very same rights that they, themselves use (and abuse) everyday. The more people see gays as their equals, the more inclined they are going to be to change their views.<< I don't know. I am tired of the hashing and rehashing the same things over and over again. I admire the gay folk around here (like Dabob2, for one) who manage to keep their composure on this and similar subjects. But my vociferousness (is that even a word?) and my ferocity is an excellent indication of just how fed up I am with all of this. All of my life I've been told, by one person or another, "You're just not good enough." Whether it's family, the churches I grew up around, or people I barely know who should have no power over me. Screw that. And on another, tenuously related note, I offer the following: <a href="http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/metro/20080527-9999-1n27insem.html" target="_blank">http://www.signonsandiego.com/...sem.html</a> Background: A lesbian in Oceanside sued doctors at a Vista medical group for refusing to perform an artificial insemination procedure. What's happening: The California Supreme Court will decide whether the doctors can use a defense that says their strong religious beliefs prevented them from doing the procedure. The future: After the Supreme Court rules, the case will come back to San Diego for a possible trial.
Originally Posted By jdub >>Heck, if I were God, I'd strike you down for putting words in mouth<< Ooof, THAT'S a little harsh! Good thing you'll never be a god, huh!?
Originally Posted By Elderp "Good thing you'll never be a god, huh!? " Hey, I never claimed personal perfection. Come talk to me in a few eons and we will have to see if I improved any. Probably not, but we will see. I gotta work on my dumb typos first.
Originally Posted By Elderp "Background: A lesbian in Oceanside sued doctors at a Vista medical group for refusing to perform an artificial insemination procedure. What's happening: The California Supreme Court will decide whether the doctors can use a defense that says their strong religious beliefs prevented them from doing the procedure. The future: After the Supreme Court rules, the case will come back to San Diego for a possible trial. " Interesting case, I can see the court forcing a Doctor to fix someone if it is necessary, but an artificial insemination is an optional procedure. I am not saying the lady didn't have the right to get it done, but I will say I don't think someone should be forced to do it either.
Originally Posted By utahjosh >>a mormon on these very boards stated unequivocally that if his church proclaimed that blacks were once again inferior in their eyes, he'd have absolutely no problem following it.<< I would not ever believe that Blacks are inferior. I don't believe my church leaders believed that blacks were "inferior." Just that they could not hold the priesthood. Why? I don't know. I wish I did. Racism from early church members may have been a part of it. I don't know. However, if the Prophet today again said that Blacks could not hold the priesthood by instruction from God, I would support that. Would I think less of my good friends who are black? No. Would I feel bad for them? Yes. Do I think that would ever happen? No.
Originally Posted By dshyates Wow, Elderp and I agree on something. It is not a life saving procedure and I don't feel the Dr. should be forced to perform it. Thats the whole thing about the "Land of the Free". It should be their right to have the procedure. And it is his right to not perform it.
Originally Posted By mele I don't think I'd sue either...but I'd sure as hell make sure the public knew about it. The doctor's practice is a business and bad press isn't particularly good for business. Hit 'em where it hurts.
Originally Posted By mele Also, I wonder if this doctor screens out all people who offend him or just gay people? Does he refuse to perform inseminations for common law couples, single women, interracial couples, etc?
Originally Posted By X-san ***Then why not say it like it is, why cloak your arguements?*** I didn't. I tried to respect the poster in question, since saying such a thing is quite abhorrent. Since he just said it again though, obviously he doesn't really care. ***I will have to agree with you there, I hope to one day understand it. I will say there are a lot of other things God has done that I don't understand, but that doesn't meam I will cease to believe in God.*** Attempting to justify the blatant racism of your group in the guise of "gods will" (and so directly! how bold.) just goes to further prove the fact that we're talking about a cult here, not a mainstream religion. Even as a FORMER christian I'm pretty insulted that you guys hold such frightening views even today and still call yourselves christians. There's nothing remotely christian about that.
