Originally Posted By utahjosh The LDS Church is just continuing the promotion of the family unit as ordained by God according to our understanding. I'll repeat a paragrpah from the LDS Church's proclamation on the Family from a few years ago: "Further, we warn that the disintegration of the family will bring upon individuals, communities, and nations the calamities foretold by ancient and modern prophets. We call upon responsible citizens and officers of government everywhere to promote those measures designed to maintain and strengthen the family as the fundamental unit of society."
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Originally Posted By plpeters70 "Further, we warn that the disintegration of the family" Just how does allowing gay people to marry cause the disintegration of the family? In my opinion, it's actually broadening the definition of what a family is - and extending it to millions of people. So, why exactly is that a bad thing?? "will bring upon individuals, communities, and nations the calamities foretold by ancient and modern prophets" And this is just the usual fire and brimestone crap used to scare worshippers into obedience. But you know, that kind of stuff doesn't really scare anyone else.
Originally Posted By utahjosh < But you know, that kind of stuff doesn't really scare anyone else. It doesn't scare me. It's not meant to scare you. It's just what we believe.
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan >>We call upon responsible citizens and officers of government everywhere to promote those measures designed to maintain and strengthen the family as the fundamental unit of society.<< I agree with that. But I think the definition of "family" that I hold is probably much broader than what your church sees as a family. I think we should support families, assist in keeping them strong and vibrant. We do that by first recognizing and acceptiing the simple fact that a family can consist of sam sex partners and their children. Marriage is a positive component to society. Having it include same sex couples would make the institution that much stronger.
Originally Posted By DAR A few years ago Patton Oswalt(Ratatouille himself) was doing a stand up bit about Cirque du Solei. Him and his wife took their parents to a show in Vegas. He noticed that the crowd was a very red state, pro Bush solid American crowd that was absolutely loving the show. He then stated that it's insane we don't have gay marriage in this country. He closed the show by saying Edited for content: <<Gay Man-Say would it be okay if I declared my undying love for my partner and we spent the rest of our lives together. Bigot-Go to hell. Gay Man-Okay what if we wore skin tight body suits and mounted each other on this tight rope. Bigot-AWESOME!!!!>> Real does speak of the absurdity of this whole situation.
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan I don't know what a sam sex partner is, but it's not my business. It's Sam's.
Originally Posted By ecdc A couple of things on the letter from the Mormon church. First, it really exposes its hypocrisy by invoking the whole "it's a moral issue" claim. The LDS Chuch's silence on the Iraq war, torture, and a myriad of other moral issues is simply deafening. They make political calculations to not speak out on those moral issues, in what amounts to sheer cowardice. Second, although the church has always been anti-gay, an important departure (and a troubling one) in this letter was the overt use of right-wing political language in the letter. The reference to the court overturning the will of the people is straight out of Sean Hannity's playbook and a different approach for the church. They are on the wrong side of this issue, just like they were on the black issue, and the day will come where they regret it, do mental gymnastics, and blame their bigotry on God instead of man.
Originally Posted By utahjosh I believe the strongest unit in our society is a good, moral family. It's what our society was built upon. A mom, a dad, and some kids. We see what happens in inner cities when Dad goes by-by. Of course a strong woman could raise a great family by herself.But the pattern of Dad leaving home is a detriment to the society as a whole and as a general rule. I love it when people rise above these situations and make great people out of themselves, but that doesn't mean I should encourage single-parent families. And of course a gay couple could be faithful to each other and with a kid teach them good principles (well, we'd disagree on one principle.) But my belief is that this is not what our society was built upon and it would further hurt us. Kids need a loving mom and dad. I'm sad that so many do not have that anymore for many many reasons. I encourage good initiatives to support the traditional family.
Originally Posted By utahjosh <They are on the wrong side of this issue, just like they were on the black issue, and the day will come where they regret it, do mental gymnastics, and blame their bigotry on God instead of man. > I disagree so much. The church will NEVER encourage same-sex marriage. (The right for same-sex It's not the same situation as priesthood rights for blacks - the eternal doctrines about this are clear and concise for us, which was not the case about blacks and the priesthood.)
Originally Posted By SingleParkPassholder "And of course a gay couple could be faithful to each other and with a kid teach them good principles (well, we'd disagree on one principle.) But my belief is that this is not what our society was built upon and it would further hurt us." I just don't see how society could be all that hurt by two loving parents, same sex or not, raising a child who otherwise might not have a family at all. Gays adopt all the time. Your position would deny that child a family. Pretty shameful.
Originally Posted By ecdc I realize I sound really harsh on this topic. Part of me still loves my church, but I can't begin to explain how embarrassed and frustrated I am that they haven't learned their lesson. They increasingly become a corporation, more concerned about public relations than about right and wrong. How can you possibly claim to represent the name Jesus Christ and rail against people falling in love while remaining silent on torture and war. So much for the Prince of Peace. I showed a friend of mine the letter a couple of days ago. His eyes filled with tears and he said the Mormon church he loved no longer exists, and that the time had come to resign from the church.
Originally Posted By SingleParkPassholder "Of course a strong woman could raise a great family by herself.But the pattern of Dad leaving home is a detriment to the society as a whole and as a general rule. I love it when people rise above these situations and make great people out of themselves, but that doesn't mean I should encourage single-parent families." If you've got some real life experiences with inner city families, please share. Otherwise, I'd quit giving advice about things you don't know anything about. I deal with them every day. Many of these kids would gladly live with gay parents or even a single gay parent if it meant a locking household. Matter of fact, a gay man my wife works with just completion the process and has adopted a 12 year old who has spent his life in and out of foster homes. The boy is thrilled beyond words to be where he is now. He calls the guy "Dad", gave him 13 different cards for Father's Day because he wanted to make up for all the Father's Days he had no one to buy for, and the new Dad cries every time he talks about him. There are many stories like this, but you'd deny them all.
Originally Posted By BlueDevilSF >>I encourage good initiatives to support the traditional family.<< It's easy for you smugly say this while standing on your pedestal, the person who made a public spectacle in proposing to his fiancée. (I would have booed or at the very least walked out. Ickypoo.) The tradition family will NEVER go away. Why can't you people see that?
Originally Posted By SingleParkPassholder "meant a locking household." Oh brother, a LOVING HOUSEHOLD. Damn fat fingers.
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan >>How can you possibly claim to represent the name Jesus Christ and rail against people falling in love while remaining silent on torture and war.<< Exactly. And think of the time and dollars that will be spent on this, instead of helping people in desperate need. People are financially hurting in our country and in our world, and instead those dollars will go to promoting bigotry instead of helping people. I can't help but think that's not what Jesus would do.
Originally Posted By SingleParkPassholder "a gay man my wife works with just completion the process" oh for goodness sakes. ...just COMPLETED the process....
